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I would like an example of some "zero tolerance" school laws.
I would like posters to stipulate to three items:
1) that school based personnel do not, as a general rule, design any policy but are tasked to enforce those policies.
2) that policies are designed and adopted by local school boards, state Departments of Education and, in some instances, the federal Department of Education.
3) that there are close to 15000 public school systems in the US and policies will differ between each and every one.
If the above aren't accepted then this thread will devolve to the typical "bash the hogs at the trough" teacher thread.
Zero tolerance policies are indeed set at the district level, if not the state. I don't think there's any argument that it's overzealous principals who create or set them... other than the odd stupidity that makes headlines like the recent "dress code for parents" flap.
Does it matter where the policy is set, when it has results like kids who are suspended or expelled for (sometimes inadvertently) bringing a pocketknife or aspirin to school?
If the fear lawsuits is really what drives schools to implement zero tolerance policies, should we pass tort reform legislation to prevent these lawsuits, removing the incentive for zero tolerance policies?
OK so a lot of people are saying Zero Tolerance policies are not spurred by "fear of lawsuits". But there is a lot of "fear" involved.
What's the recourse when an Eagle Scout left a knife in his truck after a camping trip and he's randomly searched? If tort reform is not the right avenue to go down, then what is? Granted, allowing appeals defeats the purpose of Zero Tolerance policies, but maybe these policies need to be defeated once in a while.
Are there proposals to allow a review of individual Zero Tolerance cases?
Zero tolerance policies are indeed set at the district level, if not the state. I don't think there's any argument that it's overzealous principals who create or set them... other than the odd stupidity that makes headlines like the recent "dress code for parents" flap.
Does it matter where the policy is set, when it has results like kids who are suspended or expelled for (sometimes inadvertently) bringing a pocketknife or aspirin to school?
It mattes when the blame is misplaced. How many times have you read a thread on here with some form of "teacher suspended my ________" or some such phrasing.
In any event zero tolerance edicts have been going away ever since the Obama Justice and Education Departments sent a "Dear Colleagues" guidance letter out cautioning school systems about disparate impact in discipline policies.
No disagreement. Kind of a side issue, though, like blaming a trooper for your speeding ticket.
I am reminded of the eras when a pharaoh spent endless effort chiseling predecessors' names off every monument.
Yeah. I was still teaching when some of the Obama suggested guidances went into effect. Assault on a staff member was downgraded from expulsion to 5 day suspension. That did not go over well. Neither did removing chronic class disruption from the violation of discipline code category.
Much of this was done because studies, as well as anecdotal observation, indicated that specific demographic cohorts violated certain discipline policies more often than others and were therefore punished more often.
A strange wrinkle in my former system under the new guidelines was that possession of tobacco merited an expulsion for a second offense while distribution of controlled substances was a 5 day suspension for a second offense.
Zero-tolerance policies, like and including 'three strikes,' substitute arbitrary rules for anything like the judgment school administrators or judges are supposed to have and exercise. But they make the public feel really, really good that "someone is being tough on" whatever.
"Pop top" laws and rules... equivalent to collecting pop tops for diabetes.
No disagreement. Kind of a side issue, though, like blaming a trooper for your speeding ticket.
....
Not quite sure what you mean, but to me it's more like losing your license for being 1 mile over and the guy doing 70 in a 35 gets a warning.
To me the real problem with zero tolerance policies is not only the lack of discretion, but the impact is far, far worse on the honor student who makes an inadvertent mistake -- like the girl who drove her parent's car one day and didn't know there was a box of kitchen supplies in the trunk with a knife in it or the kid with a car first aid kit that contained a cutter -- than the habitual offender who is trying to get away with something.
That those who implement the policies are rarely those who set them.
Quote:
To me the real problem with zero tolerance policies is not only the lack of discretion, but the impact is far, far worse on the honor student who makes an inadvertent mistake -- like the girl who drove her parent's car one day and didn't know there was a box of kitchen supplies in the trunk with a knife in it or the kid with a car first aid kit that contained a cutter -- than the habitual offender who is trying to get away with something.
This. ZTP allows no judgment or mitigation. But we're all so safe as a result.
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Is society falling apart that badly?
