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In fact, I'd never choose a religious school, as there is a decent chance it might make my kid LESS educated in a variety of ways.
That's an unfortunate bias. While we weren't Catholic, our local public schools were failing and my parents put me in a Catholic high school where I received an incredible education in the basics PLUS bonus arts, history, architecture and political science that I wouldn't have gotten elsewhere.
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Originally Posted by stan4
We picked private over fantastic public bc we wanted individualized, personalized education.
I've been through the giant conveyor belt of an excellent public. While the opportunities were great, being lost in a giant, faceless uncaring system pretty much killed my love of learning. I want better for my kids.
If that's what your choices were, I wouldn't call that an excellent public school system. Gifted administrators know how to provide service even to large numbers of students.
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Originally Posted by stan4
Secondly, being put in schools where most of the kids were not invested in their education and instead served to create distraction and detraction was a travesty.
Yeah, that hasn't been my kids experience fortunately. Academic excellence is the standard in their public school.
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Originally Posted by stan4
Peer group matters.
True. Part of education to me includes the social aspect of being around ALL your age group, not just the cream skimmed off the top. That's not real life, unless real life is a gated community.
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Originally Posted by stan4
No. I would not send my kids to a religious school where basically the admission standard is your parents' ability to pay.
That was my whole point.
IMHO private elementary education is a waste of money unless you're one of those parents who wants their child to go to a religious-affiliated school. Then I guess it's something you're willing to pay for.
Of course, those parents probably think they're simply "taking the top-performing students and fostering a culture of academic excellence" too.
In fact, I'd never choose a religious school, as there is a decent chance it might make my kid LESS educated in a variety of ways.
Nonsense. I was public school K-8 and I went to a catholic high school. I was actually an atheist as well, but still chose to go due to liking their competitive Basketball program/division. (parents certainly didn't force me) Other than dealing with a single religion class, and some community service requirements here and there (which i didn't have a problem with) the education i received was top notch and gained me a partial scholarship (from academic performance...not sports) to an engineering school.
My sister however was public school through HS (she didnt want to leave her friends) and ended up getting a similar partial scholarship to a nursing program.
I'm currently an engineer today, and my sis graduated #1 in her class and was recruited by a top Boston hospital before she even graduated.
I also paid my own college loans...which were $50K in total when i graduated.
Looking back, i'd say if the local public schools are a decent program, save your money and give them a shot. I wish i did, as i would have saved my parents the tuition money as i think i would be in the same place today had i gone to public HS. It's not like they had the money. My poor dad worked loooong hours to pay for it. I think that's why they told me up front they would not be paying for college. It was fine with me.
That's an unfortunate bias. While we weren't Catholic, our local public schools were failing and my parents put me in a Catholic high school where I received an incredible education in the basics PLUS bonus arts, history, architecture and political science that I wouldn't have gotten elsewhere.
If that's what your choices were, I wouldn't call that an excellent public school system. Gifted administrators know how to provide service even to large numbers of students.
Yeah, that hasn't been my kids experience fortunately. Academic excellence is the standard in their public school.
True. Part of education to me includes the social aspect of being around ALL your age group, not just the cream skimmed off the top. That's not real life, unless real life is a gated community.
That was my whole point.
IMHO private elementary education is a waste of money unless you're one of those parents who wants their child to go to a religious-affiliated school. Then I guess it's something you're willing to pay for.
Of course, those parents probably think they're simply "taking the top-performing students and fostering a culture of academic excellence" too.
There are some public schools that are just awful. I have been a substitute teacher and have seen a wide variety of schools, so I can say that with experience. A lot has to do with the administration, but in some states the public schools are generally poor- like in FL. There are some areas where it is good, but some metropolitan areas where it is not good. However, the state offers a decent college scholarship program, so if you get kids on the right track early, they can get a good amount of financial assistance for college. I know a lot of people who went that route (private for elementary/HS) and related on the scholarship program for college.
As most of us have limited resources, what would be a better choice?
LOL so far I'm the only one who voted for B, because that's what we actually did.
We did not start our kids off in Catholic pre-K with any thoughts about how it would effect their college funds.
In fact our elder son went to public (state) college after 15 years of Catholic school, and got a full-tuition scholarship. Our younger son has continued to a Catholic university run by the same religious sisters who ran his primary and secondary schools. And he got scholarship money, not a full scholarship but the Stafford loans make up the difference.
Well, I thought I'd have something to agree with in these two posts, but I pretty much disagree more than I agree.
Agree:
Good public schools will serve most kids just fine, especially in the elementary grades. There may be some exceptions. Not all private schools are super high academic either.
I, too think this emphasis on STEM is over-done. Ironically, it seems that health/medicine is not considered a part of STEM, yet health care is a HUGE part of our economy.
Disagree:
In general, community college only offers degrees through the AA/AS. That's usually not enough to give you a background to have much opportunity for advancement. For example, many nursing jobs now require the BSN for just about any higher level job.
It is possible to take academic courses at a CC and transfer them to a 4 year college/uni, but it takes a lot of careful planning and a school with an articulation agreement with the CC. Many times, a lot of those credits are accepted just for electives, and a student still ends up going at least 3 years to the upper level college.
Academic merit scholarships are awarded on a very subjective basis. You could be outstanding and still not get one, because you're not exactly what they're looking for in a particular area.
It's not the turn of the last century any more. We're well into the new century. Plus, this "trades" focus that some people have now ignores what I said about opportunities for advancement. And while it may sound very romantic for someone to be building furniture in his (almost always "his") own shop, the reality is much different. I'm always glad I bookmarked this: https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unempl...-education.htm Earnings go up and unemployment goes down with more education. Earnings go up significantly from HS grad to college grad, and by the master's level, earnings are about twice as much as HS grad. And it's even worse for women, who still earn less than men even for the same work. There aren't many "trades" that women generally enter, other than hairdresser and LPN.
The statistics show that students who enter college by age 20 have a higher graduation rate than those who start later. https://slate.com/business/2014/11/u...-4-charts.html
Seriously, what kind of work is available to a high school graduate (only) that will give them a focus for a future career path? Fast food? Coffee serving? Retail? Not much else.
One or two of these courses in "adulthood" as you call it could be helpful, but what are you suggesting should be dropped to accommodate everything you want? How to raise children? No one can answer that question.
Parents can save for retirement and help their kids with college in many circumstances. People still usually have many years to work, at their highest earnings, after their kids graduate from college.
Excellent and well researched post.
You are right about the CCs. Without an in place and formal articulation agreement, most students will enter college as sophomores, not juniors.
In fact, any kind of transfer slows the graduation process.
To those people who are defending THEIR religious private school re: my post, understand that is NOT the option we have here.
The choices here for almost all religious private schools (not all, but almost all) are NOT what I consider top quality educational institutions. And I know families at almost all of them. Most of those families are there bc of the religion or to keep their kids away from public school kids.
I'd absolutely pick our great publics here in DFW any day over pretty much any religious school here save 3.
True. Part of education to me includes the social aspect of being around ALL your age group, not just the cream skimmed off the top. That's not real life, unless real life is a gated community.
My mom said that to me, too.
"You have to learn to live with all kinds of people."
[She meant my nutbag roommate my undergrad assigned me who used to avoid any natural light and went around licking phones so she could spread her mono.]
But you know what I have learned?
That's a crock.
You can learn all about other people and cultures without having to suffer.
And since I didn't marry a phone-licking vampire, that whole concept has proven to be wholly untrue. I did NOT, in fact, have any useful lesson imparted to me.
Amen to that! Not the reason we started our kids in Catholic school for pre-K, but part of the reason I'm glad we stuck with it all the way thru graduation.
Not that the giant public schools here are any worse than the giant public school I graduated from, but we had no fear of gang violence and a reduced fear of negative peer influence in our small private school.
The K-12 is most important because that's where the foundation is laid. That's where they learn the basics, including study skills and how to interact with other people.
As long as the public schools aren't absolutely horrible, they can learn there. The parental involvement and attitude is very important though. You will need to model good behavior, talk about school with them, show an interest, attend meetings with the teachers, and make sure the kid does the homework.
Just about any kid can do well enough if the parents are good role models. If you want, you can always pay extra for a tutor. But it's up to you to take them to museums and on other education outings and to talk about interesting topics so that they can learn to think and to be interested. It's up to you to make sure they know how to behave at home and in class. If they're fooling around in class, they could be in the best school and still not learn anything.
As long as they do okay in school and learn to get along with other kids, they can then either go to a community college and then finish up at a four year college, or just go straight to a four year college. Maybe they won't want college at all. But it's the parents who make the difference no matter what school they attend K-12. As a teacher, I saw it over and over again.
We have moved twice to get our kids into better public schools. At the same time a bigger, nicer house each time. It does not necessarily mean more money for college, but poor elementary schools will sour an eager learner on education and they may not even want to go to college. As it turned out, with equity from sale of the old homes the moves still cost less than a private school. Today, our local private costs $9,979 for elementary, High School is $24,540/year, more than the University of Washington ($11,207).
IMO a better public school is one where ALL the kids and their parents are interested taking their school time seriously. I grew up in Concord, MA, and the plus was a safe town with all my friends engaged in being good students (and being decent human beings) and not a baby momma or wannabe thuggie in sight.
And honestly, while exposing a child/student to cultural diversity is good, it's detrimental for them to associate with other children who don't care about having a good education, and hope to succeed by being a rapper, professional athlete or winning a lottery. Or whose role models are celebrities like Kanye or his wife Kim.
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