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This should be a shock to absolutely no one. Instead of preparing kids for the real-world with real-world skills, educational institutions now prioritize teaching students about 70+ genders, "drag time" story time for children, that you can self-identify as anything your little heart desires, gender unicorns, and that "climate change" is going to end the world in 12 years. A bunch of little "woke" darlings, but they can't read, write, or perform basic math. Hey, but our culture is so "woke" we never sleep now.
I don't totally disagree with you.
However, maybe being "woke" is more important than some of things we had put in our educational programs in the past.
I'm gonna say something here that I've said before.
All of you who think you have all the simplistic answers (some of which I agree with and should be a part of the solution) don't even know what you don't know. Most of you literally wouldn't last a day as an adult in a school today.
Don't be so cocky thinking you have all the answers. No one does. If it was easy, there wouldn't be any problems.
I'm gonna say something here that I've said before.
All of you who think you have all the simplistic answers (some of which I agree with and should be a part of the solution) don't even know what you don't know. Most of you literally wouldn't last a day as an adult in a school today.
Don't be so cocky thinking you have all the answers. No one does. If it was easy, there wouldn't be any problems.
In other words people who aren't teachers should shut up - but continue to pay for public schooling of course - and let present trends continue?
I'm not claiming meaningful reform will be easy*.........only that significant reform is economically and morally required.
*School reform in Finland was very difficult and time consuming, teacher's groups fought reform tooth and nail. However, Finland's K-12 improved from about where we are now in The US to near the top of the world. Finland also spends a good deal less per student.
In other words people who aren't teachers should shut up - but continue to pay for public schooling of course - and let present trends continue?
I'm not claiming meaningful reform will be easy*.........only that significant reform is economically and morally required.
*School reform in Finland was very difficult and time consuming, teacher's groups fought reform tooth and nail. However, Finland's K-12 improved from about where we are now in The US to near the top of the world. Finland also spends a good deal less per student.
No, I didn't say that. Public schools operate through Boards Of Education. That's the way the public is involved.
And I get tired of people like you putting words in my mouth.
All I said is that many of the posters here don't know squat about education, but think they have all the (usually simplistic) answers.
And a good example is you thinking that American schools and Finnish schools have student/parent populations that are similar.
In other words people who aren't teachers should shut up - but continue to pay for public schooling of course - and let present trends continue?
I'm not claiming meaningful reform will be easy*.........only that significant reform is economically and morally required.
*School reform in Finland was very difficult and time consuming, teacher's groups fought reform tooth and nail. However, Finland's K-12 improved from about where we are now in The US to near the top of the world. Finland also spends a good deal less per student.
Finland is a very small, rich country with an extremely homogeneous population. More than 93% are ethnically Finnish, with the top foreign-born population coming from Sweden. They also do not automatically grant citizenship to those born in Finland to foreigners.
Take a small group of Americans that are rich and 99% white and I’m sure we score similar to Finland. It has nothing to do with their education system.
We actually outscored Finland on the 2015 TIMSS, and they outscore us on the PISA.
I do find it ironic that the loudest voices against our public education system are those who are not involved in it in any other way than paying taxes.
The public has their voice heard by voting in the school board members who, in turn, hire the superintendent who hires the principals who then hire the remainder of the school staff. School districts largely run independently of one another, so whatever changes you think would make the whole system better would have to be enacted by each school district. There is typically an open forum at the school board meetings for community members to bring forth issues to the school board if they so choose.
If there was some magic code to cranking out a genius level population from a country largely founded and fueled by poor immigrants, I think we would have found it by now. Pointing to small, rich, homogeneous countries that limit or restrict immigration, and are completely the opposite of the U.S. population, does not add anything to the conversation regarding the improvement of schools here.
I heard somewhere that the verbiage in most forms and disclosures is written at <insert elementary or middle school grade level here>.
I think most "non-readers" (don't that too literally) would be surprised if they encountered something written at a 12th grade level. They're just not used to seeing it.
People whose daily reading consists of online articles and "skimming for information" don't digest it in paragraphs, chapters, and concepts. It's a muscle-memory word search. Once you utilize that, writing it down or reading it aloud, it essentially goes in one ear and out the other.
I heard somewhere that the verbiage in most forms and disclosures is written at <insert elementary or middle school grade level here>.
I think most "non-readers" (don't that too literally) would be surprised if they encountered something written at a 12th grade level. They're just not used to seeing it.
People whose daily reading consists of online articles and "skimming for information" don't digest it in paragraphs, chapters, and concepts. It's a muscle-memory word search. Once you utilize that, writing it down or reading it aloud, it essentially goes in one ear and out the other.
Reader Digest is written at roughly an 8th grade level. Time roughly 11th.
No, I didn't say that. Public schools operate through Boards Of Education. That's the way the public is involved.
And I get tired of people like you putting words in my mouth.
All I said is that many of the posters here don't know squat about education, but think they have all the (usually simplistic) answers.
And a good example is you thinking that American schools and Finnish schools have student/parent populations that are similar.
You put words in people's mouths, as it were, across virtually every post. For example I never once claimed that the melange of Finnish schools/parents etc. are even similar to the same in The US.
Finland is a very small, rich country with an extremely homogeneous population. More than 93% are ethnically Finnish, with the top foreign-born population coming from Sweden. They also do not automatically grant citizenship to those born in Finland to foreigners.
Take a small group of Americans that are rich and 99% white and I’m sure we score similar to Finland. It has nothing to do with their education system.
We actually outscored Finland on the 2015 TIMSS, and they outscore us on the PISA.
I do find it ironic that the loudest voices against our public education system are those who are not involved in it in any other way than paying taxes.
The public has their voice heard by voting in the school board members who, in turn, hire the superintendent who hires the principals who then hire the remainder of the school staff. School districts largely run independently of one another, so whatever changes you think would make the whole system better would have to be enacted by each school district. There is typically an open forum at the school board meetings for community members to bring forth issues to the school board if they so choose.
If there was some magic code to cranking out a genius level population from a country largely founded and fueled by poor immigrants, I think we would have found it by now. Pointing to small, rich, homogeneous countries that limit or restrict immigration, and are completely the opposite of the U.S. population, does not add anything to the conversation regarding the improvement of schools here.
1. Finland is small and overwhelmingly white. It is not particularly rich at least relative to much of the first world with per capita GDP lower than Sweden and much lower than Norway. And quite a bit lower than The US FWIIW.
2. I don't know enough about the TIMSS to really comment, although I know we've communicated about it in the past. Finnish kids hammered our kids across all subjects on the 2015 PISA.
3. Finland's magic code is really pretty simple. And disparage them all you'd like but Finland had atrocious K-12 metrics a few decades ago. Now they have blown past The US. In my opinion a few changes have been key to their successes.
* Virtually all K-12 teachers in Finland are top 10% university performers selected after college to earn MS degrees in education.
* Local schools and individual teachers have significant autonomy. However, poor teachers are regularly fired or assigned non-teaching jobs.
* The country invested in what amounts to kinder beginning at 4.
*Academic expectation levels were ratcheted up significantly.
* There are fewer high stakes tests. However, one end of school week long test more or less decides what kids will do in the future.
You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.... Schools dont tend to make reading interesting. Its just another force fed hoop jumping trick kids have to do. Those who develop best reading skills are those that read something they are actually interested in on their own for the pleasure of it. Practice makes perfect but if its boring rote crap, they arent going to practice.
I remember in grade school one girl that continually got into trouble for reading paperback novels instead of the boring crap the teacher was trying to force feed to us. Jeesh how stupid can you get, here is kid that actually enjoys reading. She just wasnt doing it in the approved manner at the approved time. I was smart enough not to get teachers negative attention like that, though had lot sympathy for that girl.
I quickly got the notion that public school was some sort of prison sentence for being a kid and read what I wanted when I got home ignoring the school stuff. Never was a fan of busy work. Course they put me in lower reading level.... until I tested in 99th percentile in reading on state basic skills test. Then proclaimed THEIR success in inspiring me, and marched me up to top reading class, apparently they were truly clueless until that test forced their collective nose in my reading abilities. I knew how to read and liked reading for my own purposes, just didnt like their way of doing it or the stupid material they wanted to force us to read. Apparently teachers couldnt tell difference between BOREDOM and ability. I was bored in that top reading class too. Still bunch silly hoop jumping.
Last edited by HJ99; 11-07-2019 at 02:29 PM..
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