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Old 11-11-2019, 02:28 PM
 
30 posts, read 15,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwe View Post
High school education is so dumbed down that many can barely read or think critically. And dumbing it down even more will solve the problem. What an idiotic statement!
My sister was in the 93 percentile for algebra on the PSAT in our state and I think more critically than her.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:30 PM
 
30 posts, read 15,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
Algebra isn't hard. But I think high schools should offer some free tutoring for kids who can't quite grasp it.
Some kids will never grasp it.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
Algebra should absolutely be included in a HS curriculum. Looking at jobs that don’t require algebra as a justification for eliminating it is a weak argument. Look at all the jobs that do require it. Not teaching a basic mathematical skill such as this does a huge disservice to everybody.
I do believe statistical algebra should be taught as I mentioned in my OP, not complex abstract algebra or calculus, etc.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:34 PM
 
21,483 posts, read 5,541,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katie1215 View Post
Many jobs require a high school diploma, even if abstract algebra or analyzing complex literature is not part of the job. Yet abstract algebra and advanced mathematics is often a requirement for a diploma. Some students will never understand it no matter what, even with intensive tutoring. I do think all students should learn statistical algebra, like mortgages, finance, budgeting, percentages, loans, compounding interest, graphs, fractions, data plots, etc. Abstract algebra should be optional. I am referring to solving equations like 2(x2-1)+3x(x+ 4) or finding the function or the value of X.

I checked the requirements for a security position in my county’s library system. The security job duties patrolling the library, providing exceptional customer service, aiding sick and injured people, confronting and de-escalating problems and informing departments on fire/safety issues. This job requires a high school diploma and the posting said some college preferred, even though you won't be finding the value of X, analyzing complex literature or reciting the byzantine empire conquest as part of the job. Even a custodian position at the library requires a diploma. I understand custodians have to have knowledge on proper use and safe disposal of chemicals, but that stuff is not taught in high school.

We should have a system like Britain, where you get a GCSE in each subject. A student can get a GCSE in an electricians class or marketing class and work at a related field. High school should have more career-related classes. I do support graduation requirements being the bare minimum to tell employers you can work compose a professional email, understand basic math like I described above, etc.

We should also stop telling students that everyone should go to college, or college is the only way to achieve economic success. Encourage apprenticeships, vocational schools, etc. Get students thinking about different career options and maybe have them try out different careers so they will have a better idea about what they want to do.
I dont think abstract algebra should have a place in our high school graduation requirements either,OP.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katie1215 View Post
I do think all students should learn statistical algebra, like mortgages, finance, budgeting, percentages, loans, compounding interest, graphs, fractions, data plots, etc..

That is "arithmetic", not algebra.


Quote:
Originally Posted by katie1215 View Post
Abstract algebra should be optional. I am referring to solving equations like 2(x2-1)+3x(x+ 4) or finding the function or the value of X.

.

That is just "algebra".


And no, algebra is NOT advanced mathematics. In fact I would say that algebra and geometry are the first two steps away from arithmetic into mathematics. In other words, high school algebra and geometry are really an introduction to mathematics, meaning the system of thought and abstraction characteristic of mathematics as opposed to the mechanical manipulation of numbers which is arithmetic.


I don't think anyone who can't manage that basic level of abstract thinking should get a high school diploma.


And yes, it can be difficult for people to think in that new way. Tutoring should be provided for those students. And maybe they'd have better success at learning it if the constant classroom disruptions could be reduced.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:38 PM
 
30 posts, read 15,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
I worked at a job that was primarily people who were social workers. They had to do lots of algebra as part of that job. The people who really had never learned how to do it struggled with some aspects of the job. I didn’t do that well in algebra in high school, but I was glad I learned it. I have found it to be incredibly useful since I have graduated.
Can you elaborate? I work in sales so I use math, but not the algebra that was taught in high school.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
10,841 posts, read 9,656,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katie1215 View Post
Can you elaborate? I work in sales so I use math, but not the algebra that was taught in high school.
Algebra is very relevant to sales.

How do you calculate a 45% margin on a net priced item?

If you receive a 2% manufacturers rebate on annual purchases of $1,000,000 and you operate on a 15% margin from net, 10% of your customers get a 1% discount off retail for paying net30, you markdown 1.5% of inventory for promotional purposes, what is your maintained margin?

If you cannot work your way through these algebraic problems you will have a difficult time predicting profitability. You may be able to sell something, but you will never be a sales manager or really understand the rules of your own profession.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Rural Wisconsin
9,886 posts, read 2,761,769 times
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I think that kids should be evaluated in the ninth grade as far as where their talents and interests are, and education after that point should be geared to the kind of job/field they want -- and only those kids who are "college material" should be required to take advanced courses.

I have had various positions in various fields (publishing, education, retail, and office administration), and there was nothing I learned in high school that had anything to do with filling the duties of any of my positions. All the English and math I needed I knew by the end of eighth grade (at the latest), and I never put anything I learned in my history, advanced math, or science courses to any practical use, although I did enjoy history (and still do).

I think that in many cases -- but certainly not all! --the only real value to having a high school diploma is proving to future employers that you were probably not a lazy, troubled or unmotivated kid.

P.S. I was a sales/merchandise manager for a local department store responsible for buying 1.4 million in merchandise in 1979 dollars (and I had a staff of 14), but I did not put any algebra to use -- just math I had learned in earlier grades along with a training course of six weeks, if I remember correctly, that did cover some retail math, but nothing that was very difficult.
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Old 11-11-2019, 03:09 PM
 
30 posts, read 15,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
Algebra is very relevant to sales.

How do you calculate a 45% margin on a net priced item?

If you receive a 2% manufacturers rebate on annual purchases of $1,000,000 and you operate on a 15% margin from net, 10% of your customers get a 1% discount off retail for paying net30, you markdown 1.5% of inventory for promotional purposes, what is your maintained margin?

If you cannot work your way through these algebraic problems you will have a difficult time predicting profitability. You may be able to sell something, but you will never be a sales manager or really understand the rules of your own profession.
That can be solved with 8th grade math.
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Old 11-11-2019, 03:13 PM
 
8,641 posts, read 3,997,303 times
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OK, let's run that pop fly out.


Your projected manufacturing cost is $225. Your organization requires a 45% minimum gross margin. What, then, will be the minimum sales price for this product to achieve the required minimum gross margin?


Don't run to a book and look up a formula. Tell us, right now, how you calculate the sales price. I defy you to do so without using algebra - i.e., the substitution of a place holder letter or symbol for a number that you wish to calculate.
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