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Yes. All "the system" has done is make my child hate math, instead of giving him an opportunity to learn things that would actually be useful to him.
It may surprise some posters to know that at the university level, students with documented learning disabilities are able to get exemptions for certain classes and replace them with appropriate classes. For example, instead of having to take foreign language, these students can take a cultural appreciation course. Math is often replaced with a non-math based science class.
There are well documented examples of LD students at schools like Yale and University of Michigan doing just that. And those students received the same diploma as everyone else from their schools.
In fact, due to laws like the ones I cited above, it is often easier to do this at college than it is in high school.
Universities are paid from most of the students basically.
So, they don't have this problem.
K-12 public schools are forced to take in kids that refuse to school.
The majority of many communities are not okay with children repeating grades and many places have certain statistics they must meet. Ironically, this system exists mainly because of your elected legislators, liability culture, lawyers, and most every day families that go about their own lives.
In college, they are not liable for their students. Basically, colleges can try to cater to whatever as long as you pay them.
The system won't change unless communities and government are okay with no pressure for many things on teachers. This just isn't happening, as there does need to be a threshold on teachers in some way too. Unfortunately, we can only be so qualitative as qualitative is a judgment call.
1. Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990
2. Section 504 the Rehabilitation Act of 1973
3. Chapter 121 of the Texas Human Reaources Code
4. The Texas State Dyslexia Law, originally written in 1985, implemented into the TEA in the late 90s
5. The IDEA Act (Individuals with Disabilities in Education)
Also you are mistaken regarding the diploma choices. There is no option to "opt of of Geometry" and receive a different diploma. There are three diplomas, and two of the three require the same three levels of math. If a student has a documented disability that prevents him or her from completing some portion of that, such as PE, then that student could be covered by law and allowed to take a substitute class for credit. If Texas had wanted to make that a different diploma, they could have, but that is not how it works in Texas.
Yes. All "the system" has done is make my child hate math, instead of giving him an opportunity to learn things that would actually be useful to him.
It may surprise some posters to know that at the university level, students with documented learning disabilities are able to get exemptions for certain classes and replace them with appropriate classes. For example, instead of having to take foreign language, these students can take a cultural appreciation course. Math is often replaced with a non-math based science class.
There are well documented examples of LD students at schools like Yale and University of Michigan doing just that. And those students received the same diploma as everyone else from their schools.
In fact, due to laws like the ones I cited above, it is often easier to do this at college than it is in high school.
I don't think you even understand how and why certain requirements are put into curriculum decisions. It isn't necessarily what one NEEDS to function in society. It's to open doors for the future. You have as much right -- but no more -- than any other citizen to have input as to educational requirements in your state.
The whole point is that a profoundly deaf student would not be *required* to take a higher level music curriculum.
My child with 3 learning disabilities is *required* to take upper level classes in which he has a proven disability.
It is as challenging in that regard as if he were deaf, or in a wheel chair, or whatever.
Under the law, all these disabilities are the same, yet LD students do not get the full benefit of their legal protections due to thinking like yours. I mean, LD kids should just "work harder", right?
LD kids are not stupid; in fact, many have high IQ's and outstanding abilities in other areas. But they will never learn some things. Dyslexic Henry Winkler (the actor) actually had to sue his school in NY after he failed Geometry multiple times. He won, BTW.
If public schools taught neurotypical children in the way that LD kids learn, then neurotypical children would struggle.
Also I am not "arguing vocabulary"; these are legally used terms that have ramifications.
Do you have some special training in SPED laws? Because you sound a lot to me like so many SPED parents who thing they know the law better than school systems. And while there are negligent schools and school systems, the system I was in was run professionally and was well-respected in regard to special education.
Much to my surprise, of all the subjects I took in junior high school and high school, Algebra is one of the subjects I used the most in my 34 year career. You'd be surprised how much you "solve for X" in office jobs having to do with report writing, recommendations in opinion papers, presentation charts, inventory systems, and research to name a few.
All three diplomas require algebra and geometry. One of the three diplomas requires algebra I, geometry, plus algebra II. Two diplomas require three years of math, while one of the three diplomas requires four years of math.
There is no option in my state to graduate with a diploma not requiring Algebra I and Geometry.
I've told you multiple times there is no other option for diplomas in my state. Google it if you don't believe me. But don't say you are right, when you are completely wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
I don't think you even understand how and why certain requirements are put into curriculum decisions. It isn't necessarily what one NEEDS to function in society. It's to open doors for the future. You have as much right -- but no more -- than any other citizen to have input as to educational requirements in your state.
I don't think you have any idea what my child wants to do in the future, let alone what he "NEEDS to function in society."
I can tell you this with 100% certainty--my child needs to know personal finance and how that works infinitely more than he needs to know how to graph equations.
And I never said I had any more right to input than anyone else. That's a rather random comment to make. The same goes to you. However, it might be useful for people who make these decisions to get input from parents of learning disabled students, and from those students themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Do you have some special training in SPED laws? Because you sound a lot to me like so many SPED parents who thing they know the law better than school systems. And while there are negligent schools and school systems, the system I was in was run professionally and was well-respected in regard to special education.
Do you? I thought you said you were a principal, not a lawyer. You sound a lot to me like every administrator who thinks they know what is best for a learning disabled child, even though they have no special training in learning disabilities, haven't taken the time to get to know my child, and think that there is only one way to approach learning.
P.S. Maybe you could learn to multi quote?
Last edited by calgirlinnc; 12-07-2019 at 06:42 PM..
Depending upon the school district and the year you were in middle school, you might have taken Algebra I in 6th, 7th, 8th or 9th grade. I am 74 and when I was in school, the only options were 8th or 9th grade and 9th grade was the norm. When my kids were in school in the 1970s and 1980s, my son took Algebra I in 6th grade and my daughter took Algebra I in 7th or 8th grade (not sure which). My grandchildren who are currently in high school in Texas took Algebra I in 8th grade and 9th grade respectively. My youngest grandchild is in Algebra I now. He is in 9th grade special education mainstreamed into a regular class.
Depending upon the school district and the year you were in middle school, you might have taken Algebra I in 6th, 7th, 8th or 9th grade. I am 74 and when I was in school, the only options were 8th or 9th grade and 9th grade was the norm. When my kids were in school in the 1970s and 1980s, my son took Algebra I in 6th grade and my daughter took Algebra I in 7th or 8th grade (not sure which). My grandchildren who are currently in high school in Texas took Algebra I in 8th grade and 9th grade respectively. My youngest grandchild is in Algebra I now. He is in 9th grade special education mainstreamed into a regular class.
Yes. I have seen different years, too.
Interestingly, my elementary school kids are doing algebra concepts right now. Writing equations and solving for x without using "x," per se.
I don't think you have any idea what my child wants to do in the future, let alone what he "NEEDS to function in society."
I can tell you this with 100% certainty--my child needs to know personal finance and how that works infinitely more than he needs to know how to graph equations.
And I never said I had any more right to input than anyone else. That's a rather random comment to make. The same goes to you. However, it might be useful for people who make these decisions to get input from parents of learning disabled students, and from those students themselves.
Do you? I thought you said you were a principal, not a lawyer. You sound a lot to me like every administrator who thinks they know what is best for a learning disabled child, even though they have no special training in learning disabilities, haven't taken the time to get to know my child, and think that there is only one way to approach learning.
P.S. Maybe you could learn to multi quote?
1. And you don't necessarily know what your child will be doing 20, 30, 40 years from now. The vast majority of kids, including SPED kids, don't end up doing for life what they may have thought they would be doing (or what their parents thought they would be doing) in their adult lives. In fact, we're at a time when we can't even accurately imagine what American life will be like very far down the line.
2. So you have three options. a.) Live with the system you're in. b.) Start advocating for change at your state level. Start advocating for change at your school system level. There is nothing stopping your school system from adding a course in personal finance. c.) Learning about personal finance is not exactly brain surgery. It's something you could teach your child yourself. There are parents out there that home school their children in all subjects. This is one subject your could tackle yourself.
3. Yes, administrators and teachers should get input from parents. However, when you're a school with 1,000 students, it's not possible to tailor-make a personal education plan, with personal lessons, and personal teachers for all kids. Yes, there needs to be accommodations for SPED kids, sometimes extensive accommodations. But that isn't the same as a parent shopping at the mall and always finding exactly what you want. And from my perspective, the two biggest problems with parent input are -- the parent who fights against having their child get special education services AND the parents who wants the world in special education services. If you want the world, then I think private educational settings are what you should be looking at. That's not what public education is. We cannot be all things to all children. It would be nice if we could, but it's just not possible. If you want a tailor-made program for your child, you're going to have fork over some money. Let's remember that if your school offers a course or program in personal finance, SPED laws require that accommodations be made for special ed students, if needed. Special ed laws do not require courses be added just for special ed kids.
4. You're amazing. You know what every school administrator is like. Yes, I did have special training in special education. Yes, I sat in on most IEPs and 504 meetings in our school unless our special ed chairperson said it was totally unnecessary or I was out of the building on business. Yes, I won an award from what at the time was known as the Association for Retarded Citizens of the United States for opening the doors to our school for all but the most extreme cases of SPED kids, as opposed to previous principals who had worked hard to put kids in special schools; my feeling -- SPED kids are part of our community, so where possible they need to be in our community.
5. Again, you don't understand an important restraint of public schools. I know you want us to know your child personally. That's just not possible. I couldn't personally know all 1,000+ students in my school. But I will tell you this. Most of the teachers in our school (other than the special ed teachers) wanted to focus too much on the gifted kids. So I focused my personal attention on three groups of kids -- ESOL kids, minority kids who were struggling, and yes...special ed kids. It was a rare day in my school that I didn't spend at least a little time in one of the special ed classrooms. In fact, one day I said to our special ed chairperson, who was slightly older than me, "When are you going to retire?" Her answer: "The day you retire". I asked her why. She said that I was the first principal she had worked under in her whole career (and she was nearly 60) who came into the special ed classes on a regular basis, and the first principal she had worked with who moved special out of the dead end hallways and into the main part of the school building.
I know you want public schools to do everything for your child. Well, we just can't. We don't have the funds, we don't have staff, we don't have the money. Most of us do the best we can with the resources we have. And where it isn't enough, you need stop whining and fill in the gaps...just like every other parent needs to do, whether special ed or not.
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