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Old 12-09-2019, 05:39 PM
 
12,704 posts, read 8,929,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
This is what our state does. We have the Traditional Diploma which allows admission to higher education, the District Option, in which a district may have lower standards for graduation but it only grants access to vocational programs, work, or the military, and the Occupational Diploma which is for exceptional education students who have met the requirements of their IEP.

The first two diplomas require the students to pass four state tests, 10th grade English, Algebra I, Biology I, and US History. There is a lot of talk about doing away with them, especially the US History exam, because large numbers of students fail to graduate because they can't pass the tests. Some of the students will take the English II exam ten times before they run out of chances because they haven't learned how to read well enough.

Should illiterate students be able to graduate just because they know the content verbally even if they can't read or write?
No. But then they shouldn't be getting to the point of graduation either. Should be found and fixed years before that.
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:18 PM
 
4,362 posts, read 4,212,234 times
Reputation: 5811
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
No. But then they shouldn't be getting to the point of graduation either. Should be found and fixed years before that.
That is what is catching them beginning in ninth grade with the Algebra I and Biology I state exams. The seniors are now taking their fourth retests. Mississippi has also recently put in a third-grade reading gate, preventing students from moving forward and providing for early intervention so that hopefully they will approach grade level by twelfth grade. The evidence of the effectiveness of the reading gate on reported test scores is obvious--Mississippi led the nation in fourth-grade reading score improvement on this year's NAEP. The backstory is that eventually the students who did not make it on time to fourth grade will at some point have to move on.

I asked our principal today what the district's current policy is on overage students, because for most of the 35 years that I've been there social promotion has been the norm. Students don't come to school because they never had to in order to get promoted. Once they are in high school, some teachers will pass everyone on their roster, whether they are there or not. Others will pass students who won't do the work because there is so much paperwork involved in a student legitimately failing. I'm sure that many, if not most, of our geometry students have not met the standards, but I would bet that most will get a credit in the class. That is not unusual from what I hear about urban schools around the country.

The principal assured me that there is no more social promotion, and indeed, the seventeen- and eighteen-year-old students are being served in the middle schools. I don't know if I believe that is going on in practice, but it added an insight to the situation. In any case, we have a serious teacher shortage and part of it is few people want to teach 18-year-old eighth-graders. In my own experience I have known two 21-year-old ninth-graders. One was murdered and the other has been in and out of prison.

I hope the third-graders who are now a year overage get some real intervention and can hopefully have a much better life than so many others in their communities. And I hope the OP can find a suitable placement for her son, perhaps at a private school that doesn't have to follow state requirements.
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,450 posts, read 24,044,107 times
Reputation: 32778
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
This is what our state does. We have the Traditional Diploma which allows admission to higher education, the District Option, in which a district may have lower standards for graduation but it only grants access to vocational programs, work, or the military, and the Occupational Diploma which is for exceptional education students who have met the requirements of their IEP.

The first two diplomas require the students to pass four state tests, 10th grade English, Algebra I, Biology I, and US History. There is a lot of talk about doing away with them, especially the US History exam, because large numbers of students fail to graduate because they can't pass the tests. Some of the students will take the English II exam ten times before they run out of chances because they haven't learned how to read well enough.

Should illiterate students be able to graduate just because they know the content verbally even if they can't read or write?
And this concept is nothing really new. Back in 1968 when I graduated from high school in New York State we had regular diplomas and Regents diplomas.
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Old 12-10-2019, 11:53 AM
 
5,985 posts, read 2,905,911 times
Reputation: 9026
To the original post, algebra isn't advanced math. I finished algebra before I entered high school. Completing algebra should absolutely be a requirement to graduate high school. I consider that basic math.
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Old 12-10-2019, 01:06 PM
 
9,240 posts, read 9,721,750 times
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American culture does not emphasize math enough.
It does not require too much math to become a lawyer or doctor, which seem to be the default best careers in the US.
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Old 12-10-2019, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,475,124 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
American culture does not emphasize math enough.
It does not require too much math to become a lawyer or doctor, which seem to be the default best careers in the US.
Here's what Harvard requires:
https://meded.hms.harvard.edu/admiss...uisite-courses

Here's what a good state university, the University of Colorado, requires
Requirements | School of Medicine | University of Colorado Denver

Here's a more general link:
https://www.kaptest.com/study/mcat/t...edical-school/

Note all three links list math requirements. I don't know where you got the idea math isn't required for med school.
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Old 12-10-2019, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Central Mass
4,592 posts, read 4,848,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Note all three links list math requirements. I don't know where you got the idea math isn't required for med school.
6 credits? I had that before I graduated high school!

(note because I scored well on my AP exam, I also didn't need to take any math classes in college for my Architecture degree either)
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Old 12-10-2019, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,475,124 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio516 View Post
6 credits? I had that before I graduated high school!

(note because I scored well on my AP exam, I also didn't need to take any math classes in college for my Architecture degree either)
Note that some don't accept AP courses either. My nursing program didn't require any math, though I took a math course as an "elective" because it was what would fit into my schedule. However, math was integrated into a lot of the courses I took.
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Old 12-12-2019, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,029 posts, read 7,188,252 times
Reputation: 17121
I struggled with Algebra in high school myself. It's not something easily taught, it takes a VERY good teacher to be engaging with that subject matter. I only ever had one good math teacher my entire life. Thank God it was my college algebra teacher, or else I probably never would have gotten a college degree.

20 years out I do recognize the value of the skills utilized by algebra, and a few times have even created functions to do something useful. I probably use it day to day more than I realize.

But I remember at the time back in high school having a lot of trouble seeing the relevance and getting very frustrated. It seemed that there were either the students who got it really naturally, or those that had trouble making sense of it like myself, not much in-between. I'd see something like 2(x2-1)+3x(x+ 4) and just say WTF? o_0 I mean, I still do. I know that I once knew the process of how to attack that problem, but since it's been about 14 years since I've actually solved for x like that, I can't remember for the life of me how to start. I need to re-take my algebra classes, or at least skim them, to remember.

I think a big problem of the way I was taught was because it was always for the purpose of putting the answer on the test. It was never for understanding what the symbols are, what they were for, or what you could do with them. It was about remembering the process, plugging that process in when needed. Then they'd throw a monkey wrench in there like another letter which extended the process and I'd just scream.

I was one of the weird ones that actually liked common core math when it came out. I think I would have learned better that way because it actually taught you what numbers were and what's going on in the background when you engage the process of calculation, solving for x, etc...

Last edited by redguard57; 12-12-2019 at 05:42 PM..
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Old 12-14-2019, 11:12 AM
 
75 posts, read 35,027 times
Reputation: 80
After 250+ posts, this topic keeps going and going. That proves that algebra is important. If you didn't get it yet, never too late to learn.
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