Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-11-2019, 09:45 AM
 
31 posts, read 27,318 times
Reputation: 97

Advertisements

Many jobs require a high school diploma, even if abstract algebra or analyzing complex literature is not part of the job. Yet abstract algebra and advanced mathematics is often a requirement for a diploma. Some students will never understand it no matter what, even with intensive tutoring. I do think all students should learn statistical algebra, like mortgages, finance, budgeting, percentages, loans, compounding interest, graphs, fractions, data plots, etc. Abstract algebra should be optional. I am referring to solving equations like 2(x2-1)+3x(x+ 4) or finding the function or the value of X.

I checked the requirements for a security position in my county’s library system. The security job duties patrolling the library, providing exceptional customer service, aiding sick and injured people, confronting and de-escalating problems and informing departments on fire/safety issues. This job requires a high school diploma and the posting said some college preferred, even though you won't be finding the value of X, analyzing complex literature or reciting the byzantine empire conquest as part of the job. Even a custodian position at the library requires a diploma. I understand custodians have to have knowledge on proper use and safe disposal of chemicals, but that stuff is not taught in high school.

We should have a system like Britain, where you get a GCSE in each subject. A student can get a GCSE in an electricians class or marketing class and work at a related field. High school should have more career-related classes. I do support graduation requirements being the bare minimum to tell employers you can work compose a professional email, understand basic math like I described above, etc.

We should also stop telling students that everyone should go to college, or college is the only way to achieve economic success. Encourage apprenticeships, vocational schools, etc. Get students thinking about different career options and maybe have them try out different careers so they will have a better idea about what they want to do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-11-2019, 10:25 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,318,331 times
Reputation: 32252
Yes, it should.

Being able to handle abstract concepts, like substituting a letter in the general sense for a specific number, is one of the basic characteristics of an educated person.

Completion of secondary education should imply that one is capable of more than simply pushing buttons in order like a trained seal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2019, 10:43 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,565 posts, read 81,147,605 times
Reputation: 57772
High school education has not been about preparing one for getting a job/career since the 1950s, when they had Home Economics, Shop classes, and taught things like sewing, cooking, wood shop, home repairs, auto repair. Since then it's been all about preparing for college. If the college math curriculum requires "abstract algebra" then the high schools will teach it. Our local high school, for example, publishes their college placement data. For the class of 2018 93% went to a 4 year college, 5% to a community college, only 2% did not go to college. On their website I can see the classes offered on their course catalog. Despite the high college prep., Computer Science, honors classes and STEM emphasis, they do still at least offer visual and performing arts. There are opportunities to study Automotive Technology, culinary arts, dental careers, Fire & EMS and more for Juniors and seniors, but they must travel to a different high school or community college for that part of the day. Even those that do end up going to college.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2019, 11:20 AM
 
Location: London
44 posts, read 34,124 times
Reputation: 130
High school education is so dumbed down that many can barely read or think critically. And dumbing it down even more will solve the problem. What an idiotic statement!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2019, 11:32 AM
 
13,011 posts, read 13,044,002 times
Reputation: 21914
Algebra should absolutely be included in a HS curriculum. Looking at jobs that don’t require algebra as a justification for eliminating it is a weak argument. Look at all the jobs that do require it. Not teaching a basic mathematical skill such as this does a huge disservice to everybody.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2019, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Texas
13,480 posts, read 8,378,016 times
Reputation: 25948
Algebra isn't hard. But I think high schools should offer some free tutoring for kids who can't quite grasp it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2019, 11:48 AM
 
9,952 posts, read 6,671,651 times
Reputation: 19661
I worked at a job that was primarily people who were social workers. They had to do lots of algebra as part of that job. The people who really had never learned how to do it struggled with some aspects of the job. I didn’t do that well in algebra in high school, but I was glad I learned it. I have found it to be incredibly useful since I have graduated.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2019, 02:13 PM
 
31 posts, read 27,318 times
Reputation: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
Yes, it should.

Being able to handle abstract concepts, like substituting a letter in the general sense for a specific number, is one of the basic characteristics of an educated person.

Completion of secondary education should imply that one is capable of more than simply pushing buttons in order like a trained seal.
I agree if the abstract concepts are very basic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2019, 02:26 PM
 
31 posts, read 27,318 times
Reputation: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
High school education has not been about preparing one for getting a job/career since the 1950s, when they had Home Economics, Shop classes, and taught things like sewing, cooking, wood shop, home repairs, auto repair. Since then it's been all about preparing for college. If the college math curriculum requires "abstract algebra" then the high schools will teach it. Our local high school, for example, publishes their college placement data. For the class of 2018 93% went to a 4 year college, 5% to a community college, only 2% did not go to college. On their website I can see the classes offered on their course catalog. Despite the high college prep., Computer Science, honors classes and STEM emphasis, they do still at least offer visual and performing arts. There are opportunities to study Automotive Technology, culinary arts, dental careers, Fire & EMS and more for Juniors and seniors, but they must travel to a different high school or community college for that part of the day. Even those that do end up going to college.
This is why we should have tracking for kids who want to go to college and who want to take a different path. I personally hate how school push the “everyone should go to college” or “you need to go to college to be successful” mentality. Not everyone should go to college. My high school had a “college office” where it was all about college but they never mentioned vocational schools, apprenticeships, vocational rehabilitation and other job training. It should be the “college and career office” and provide actual career and vocational information.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-11-2019, 02:28 PM
 
12,845 posts, read 9,045,657 times
Reputation: 34904
The purpose of learning algebra isn't about finding X. Or about trains leaving LA and Chicago. It's about being able to think logically. To solve abstract problems logically. Even many of those trades you mentioned highly depend on algebra and geometry; they just don't realize that's what they're doing when laying out cuts for everything from roof pitch to stairs to block courses, HVAC, everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:53 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top