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Old 12-14-2019, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,257 posts, read 64,046,055 times
Reputation: 73913

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFisher View Post
My wife demands that one of our kids become a doctor, regardless of their interest. Or I should say she attempts to nurture their interest in this field.

I think this is primarily due to the conventional thinking that doctors are one of the best professions.

Is that conventional thinking still true on the eve of 2020?
I'm a doc and I would not point my kids in that direction unless they were really, really committed.
The administrative and bureaucratic bs is insane. Pay actually keeps dropping relative to the past.
But it's not even the pay thing. It's the Press-Ganey bs. It's the "we'll tell you how to treat your patients and how fast" bs. It's yelp reviews you can't answer bc of HIPAA. It's the government withholding pay bc you didn't click one button on your chart. It's being treated like a waiter, serving the clock, and missing the real connections you want to have with your patients.

You only do it bc you can't imagine spending your life NOT taking care of people.
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Old 12-14-2019, 04:26 PM
 
11,523 posts, read 14,561,718 times
Reputation: 16820
Being a physician is not what many people think it is.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/201.../doct-j17.html

https://www.idealmedicalcare.org/why...ie-by-suicide/
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Old 12-14-2019, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,297 posts, read 7,876,109 times
Reputation: 27606
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFisher View Post
I recall having heard that, radiology doctors are the best in that hours are regular and normal, the pay is high (USD300K salary?), and the malpractice risk is low. Is this true?
Hours in radiology aren’t always regular, diagnostic (as opposed to interventional) radiology is in danger of being outsourced, and there is no field of medicine with a low risk of malpractice.

Honestly, you’re talking about medicine as if it is an office job. It absolutely is not!
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Old 12-14-2019, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Texas
13,480 posts, read 8,282,843 times
Reputation: 25941
Radiology can be and sometimes is outsourced to doctors in other countries.
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,851 posts, read 5,763,190 times
Reputation: 11467
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFisher View Post
I recall having heard that, radiology doctors are the best in that hours are regular and normal, the pay is high (USD300K salary?), and the malpractice risk is low. Is this true?
WRONG. Radiology has one of the highest frequency of malpractice claims outside of the surgical specialties. They read such high volumes of films, that there are naturally misses. There can be HUGE malpractice if the miss is serious. Radiology is one of the specialties where everyone is likely to experience a malpractice case at least once in their career due to the shear volume of images they read. Just part of the business of that specialty. If you can’t take the stress and pressure of being sued (which many physicians psychologically can’t), radiology isn’t a specialty to go into.

Last edited by personone; 12-14-2019 at 10:08 PM..
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Old 12-14-2019, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,851 posts, read 5,763,190 times
Reputation: 11467
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
When were you in school? My son is set to graduate pre-med this spring, take a gap year and then take the MCAT. He has been extolling the virtues of the DO philosophy but I never thought about it in terms of DO's being shunned by the Establishment. I don't have a medical background at all, so there's no way for me to advise my son one way or the other but I'm curious now.
I was in medical school from 2002-2006, and residency from 06-08. The stigma around DO’s has probably diminished. When I was trying to get into med school, osteopathic schools (DO) were backups if you couldn’t get into a traditional allopathic (MD) school because they are way less competitive, in terms of grades/MCATs. Osteopathic schools train in more holistically and train students in physical medicine, which MDs don’t get, so I can see how some premeds could be interested and extoll DO programs. But at least back in my day, they were thought of as the backup option.

In reality, they still are trained to be just as competent as MDs. The major disadvantage they experience (which I believe is still true today), is that they are much less competitive for the prestigious/competitive specialties (derm, radiology, ophthalmology, ortho, and the elite internal medicine residencies in the major cities). Those types of programs may take maybe one very exceptional DO, so you have to be the very best of the best as a DO to get into a competitive specialty or residency program. Many DOs go into primary care, and there is honestly probably not much difference in their careers vs DOs.

Medicine can be an arrogant and somewhat antiquated profession, so the stereotypes of DOs being less competitive/competent still linger. For example, you will find very few DOs in high-level academic positions at Harvard, Penn, Columbia, or any other reputable medical school. Doesn’t mean they’re not capable, a lot of it is an image thing.

DOs are likely the equivalent to going to a lower tier law school. They probably face an uphill climb and have to work harder to prove themselves, and many are very good and successful. Foreign medical graduates are in the same boat. Of course these are broad generalization, so the experiences could vary.
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Old 12-15-2019, 05:44 AM
 
24,503 posts, read 17,950,423 times
Reputation: 40189
My father was a DMD oral surgeon. When company was at the house for cocktails or dinner, my sister and I would get the inevitable “Are you going to be an Oral Surgeon like your father?” My father would chime in with an emphatic “Absolutely not.” It’s largely repetitive task work and he was bored out of his mind. I can’t imagine being an in the trenches primary care physician on the clock 8 hours per day.
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Old 12-15-2019, 07:53 AM
 
6,192 posts, read 7,303,625 times
Reputation: 7558
I changed my major about 1,000 times and it meant it took me forever to graduate. By the time I realized I wanted to go to medical school, I was older. I finished up my pre-requisites. I just couldn't get myself to actually sit and study for the MCAT. I just didn't have the drive for it. I couldn't handle the stress. I knew I would be miserable. If you do not have the determination, you'll be miserable, even if you can make it through. I am at the point in my life where I do not want to live paycheck to paycheck off of my husband and start at zero again. It still tugs at my heart a bit, because if I could go back and do it all over again, I would've done everything so differently. But that's okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
I was in medical school from 2002-2006, and residency from 06-08. The stigma around DO’s has probably diminished. When I was trying to get into med school, osteopathic schools (DO) were backups if you couldn’t get into a traditional allopathic (MD) school because they are way less competitive, in terms of grades/MCATs. Osteopathic schools train in more holistically and train students in physical medicine, which MDs don’t get, so I can see how some premeds could be interested and extoll DO programs. But at least back in my day, they were thought of as the backup option.

In reality, they still are trained to be just as competent as MDs. The major disadvantage they experience (which I believe is still true today), is that they are much less competitive for the prestigious/competitive specialties (derm, radiology, ophthalmology, ortho, and the elite internal medicine residencies in the major cities). Those types of programs may take maybe one very exceptional DO, so you have to be the very best of the best as a DO to get into a competitive specialty or residency program. Many DOs go into primary care, and there is honestly probably not much difference in their careers vs DOs.

Medicine can be an arrogant and somewhat antiquated profession, so the stereotypes of DOs being less competitive/competent still linger. For example, you will find very few DOs in high-level academic positions at Harvard, Penn, Columbia, or any other reputable medical school. Doesn’t mean they’re not capable, a lot of it is an image thing.

DOs are likely the equivalent to going to a lower tier law school. They probably face an uphill climb and have to work harder to prove themselves, and many are very good and successful. Foreign medical graduates are in the same boat. Of course these are broad generalization, so the experiences could vary.

Over the years, the average GPA/MCAT has increased for DO schools, so it is definitely not what it was. I think the "stigma" as lessened quite a bit but it will still be held onto by others regardless---probably by those who need to feel better about themselves and be "over" someone else.

I think it also depends on where you live. Where I live, there are DOs everywhere and quite a few are in orthopedics. In states where there are no DO schools, I'm sure it is harder for them.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:11 AM
 
4,406 posts, read 3,415,484 times
Reputation: 14168
The stress, the threat of lawsuits, and patients taking Dr. Google’s word over yours? No thanks.
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Old 12-15-2019, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,297 posts, read 7,876,109 times
Reputation: 27606
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
WRONG. Radiology has one of the highest frequency of malpractice claims outside of the surgical specialties. They read such high volumes of films, that there are naturally misses. There can be HUGE malpractice if the miss is serious. Radiology is one of the specialties where everyone is likely to experience a malpractice case at least once in their career due to the shear volume of images they read. Just part of the business of that specialty. If you can’t take the stress and pressure of being sued (which many physicians psychologically can’t), radiology isn’t a specialty to go into.
Radiologists also get dragged into everyone else’s lawsuits, because so many patients have imaging studies as part of their care. Patient has chest x-ray (read correctly by the radiologist) as part of a preoperative workup, has surgery, dies of post-op complications and the family sues - radiologist is named in the suit. The radiologist will be dropped from the suit later, as the discovery process unfolds, but just being named will cause both stress and complications with license renewals for several years. A doc doesn’t have to make a mistake to be sued for malpractice.
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