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Old 12-15-2019, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
12,888 posts, read 7,267,908 times
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My sister said something to me recently about careers.
A good tech engineer may have a career from ages 24-45/55, get married, have kids, buy a house. Income flat.
A MD may have a career from ages 30-65+. Income increases with experience and effort.
We have a engineer son. She has an MD son; Husband an engineer. Our sons are the same age.
Our father was a physician till 82.
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Old 12-15-2019, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,291 posts, read 7,851,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post
A MD may have a career from ages 30-65+. Income increases with experience and effort.
No, not any more. Most MD’s incomes today are either flat or declining.
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Old 12-15-2019, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,851 posts, read 5,739,362 times
Reputation: 11466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
Radiologists also get dragged into everyone else’s lawsuits, because so many patients have imaging studies as part of their care. Patient has chest x-ray (read correctly by the radiologist) as part of a preoperative workup, has surgery, dies of post-op complications and the family sues - radiologist is named in the suit. The radiologist will be dropped from the suit later, as the discovery process unfolds, but just being named will cause both stress and complications with license renewals for several years. A doc doesn’t have to make a mistake to be sued for malpractice.
You are correct. I am a physician and was speaking more in laymen terms. I should have said 'named in a malpractice suit.' As you correctly state, even if you are "named" in a suit (and you are eventually dropped), you still have to report it (along with the explanation) on credentialing and license renewals. Although, I now work more on the administrative side and if you are named and eventually dropped, it should not cause any real problem with licensing/credentialing renewal, unless there was something extraordinary about the case.

Knock on wood, I have never experienced it, but I have heard that the process of being removed is still very stressful and involves time and lawyers. Doesn't seem like much of a consolation of having your name dropped after discovery.
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Old 12-15-2019, 12:31 PM
 
19,393 posts, read 17,604,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
No, not any more. Most MD’s incomes today are either flat or declining.
According to Medscape, the largest physician pay survey, average doctor pay has been up every year beginning in 2011. From ~$206K early in 2011 to $313K in 2019. No time to run the numbers but that's got to be around 6% year over year growth.
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Old 12-15-2019, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Northern Maine
10,428 posts, read 18,522,739 times
Reputation: 11562
"Doctor" is an increasingly limited occupation. The future of medicine is Physician's Assistants and Nurse Practitioners. I lean toward the Nurse Practitioner. I'm old enough to remember docs making house calls in the 1940s. PAs were a new thing in the 1980s, but they are fading as their skills are being underutilized.

Nurse Practitioners, on the other hand are fully utilizing the roles that old time rural Docs had. My observations address the situation in very rural areas. We have counties the size of small states and those counties have very low populations.
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Old 12-15-2019, 12:54 PM
 
19,393 posts, read 17,604,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
You are correct. I am a physician and was speaking more in laymen terms. I should have said 'named in a malpractice suit.' As you correctly state, even if you are "named" in a suit (and you are eventually dropped), you still have to report it (along with the explanation) on credentialing and license renewals. Although, I now work more on the administrative side and if you are named and eventually dropped, it should not cause any real problem with licensing/credentialing renewal, unless there was something extraordinary about the case.

Knock on wood, I have never experienced it, but I have heard that the process of being removed is still very stressful and involves time and lawyers. Doesn't seem like much of a consolation of having your name dropped after discovery.
A buddy is a radiologist. He was sued for writing and then signing, "not my patient - XXX" on a chart he mistakenly picked up.

The guy who died flew off a motorcycle and into a tree chest first. He suffered a probable internal decapitation and grievous chest and organ damage.

Of course the family sued every nurse, doc involved and the hospital. They even attempted to sue the ER docs - in a state where ER docs have near blanket malpractice immunity assuming baseline effort.

Eventually the family collected nothing from my buddy or his insurance and he believes nothing from anyone else.

Lawyer friends have told me that the family/legal team filed against so many people hoping some of the parties would agree to pay $10K, $15K, $25, $50K and maybe $100K from the hospital to make the suits disappear.

_______________


Anyone who believes our legal system vis a vis healthcare is anything but an abomination is either a lawyer or incredibly naive.
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:16 PM
 
Location: SoCal
20,160 posts, read 12,619,014 times
Reputation: 16992
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post
My sister said something to me recently about careers.
A good tech engineer may have a career from ages 24-45/55, get married, have kids, buy a house. Income flat.
A MD may have a career from ages 30-65+. Income increases with experience and effort.
We have a engineer son. She has an MD son; Husband an engineer. Our sons are the same age.
Our father was a physician till 82.
In my family the engineer brothers did better than the doctor brother. But the engineers got laid off a few times. So that’s why one brother suggested to all his kids to become doctors. They all 3 did. I’m still waiting to see the verdict on the next generation. So far my youngest child who is a software engineer did the best in terms of income and debt level.
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:30 PM
 
Location: NNJ
15,008 posts, read 9,947,480 times
Reputation: 17113
One of the podcasts that I listened to years ago stemmed from one the longest running studies of people; Harvard Study of Human Development. It tracked the lives of people for every 80 years.

One of the things that came out of that study was that those that established a level of happiness were more likely to bring successes in life... not the other way around... Happiness didn't always come with success. We have many cases in which very successful people were in pain of depression throughout their lives and committed suicide.

With that said, I will not demand that my children enter any one field. Rather I want them to choose according to their interests that makes them happy while rooting them in the realities of return on investment. Educate them on how their choices lay down the path of their future life financially, emotionally, and personally. Realistically, some choices will offer opportunities and others will not.... but it is important to them to make choices they can live with and of course with guidance from us as parents.

Things like career, money, free time (or lack of), travel, etc... is a personal choice. My children may not place priorities on the same things that I have in my life....

As someone who has battled depression most of my life, I believe this is important.
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:52 PM
 
12,540 posts, read 8,758,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFisher View Post
My wife demands that one of our kids become a doctor, regardless of their interest. Or I should say she attempts to nurture their interest in this field.

I think this is primarily due to the conventional thinking that doctors are one of the best professions.

Is that conventional thinking still true on the eve of 2020?
There's a fundamental flaw in the assumption. Being a doctor, or any other job was never one of the most coveted goals for a kid, at least in the general sense. For some kids being a doctor was and is. For many, perhaps most, doctor never even enters the list.

My wife's parents were wanna be doctors, and while both were in jobs related to medicine, neither became one. So that put that dream on their kids. Where it didn't work either. In may wife's case, they tried to set her career up so she'd meet and marry a doctor. Another fail there. If your kid wants to be a doctor, they'll head down that path naturally. If not, they will find their own path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
I never wanted to be a doctor and my parents never instructed me to do so.
When I was a kid I wanted to be a "scientist".
Same as me. All my life growing up. Which I did. So did my daughter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Probably because doctors get paid peanuts in China. Not exactly the same situation in the US.
Pay is not the only, or primary reason, people pick fields of study. To be really good at any profession, you have to love that profession, including all the education, studying, etc it takes to get there.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:44 PM
 
10,181 posts, read 10,181,978 times
Reputation: 9251
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Organic Chemistry II! Yikes, O-chem I was notorious enough. Thanks for the tip, I'll work it into the conversation over the Christmas break.
LOL! But yes, Orgo II....and Physics I & II as well.

My son, current college Jr., took the MCAT over the summer. The test given on the day he took it was heavy with physics & the phy section was harder than he had expected.

A suggestion? Have your son start looking in to the med schools he might want to apply to if he already hasn't. One med school that my son is very interested in applying to requires a statistics class. He found this out over the summer and is taking a Bus. Stat. class next semester, which he never would have had, had he not started looking in to med schools.

Has he done any research, or shadowing or volunteering at a hospital? As someone mentioned, volunteering could be in the capacity of a scribe - med schools want to see that their applicants have had some sort of clinical experience/exposure.

We have a good friend (who my son shadowed over the summer), who sits on the board of NYU School of Medicine - so we've relied on his knowledge and expertise. He's been a huge help in guiding my son over the years.
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