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Old 12-16-2019, 12:24 PM
 
19,521 posts, read 17,753,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Organic chemistry has things to memorize, but it is much easier than physical chemistry. (I am not sure if biology majors take it, but chemistry majors do.)
Sure but physical chemistry is generally considered to be up the food chain from O-chem I and II.

I'll ask my DIl she has a bio-chem undergrad.

Maybe I should have said the Ochems are a killer not the killer.
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Old 12-16-2019, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,289 posts, read 32,210,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
A little reality for you.

In 2019 the average new doc. has ~$250K in student loans. Less than 20% of medical school grads have over $300K in debt and those are centered around certain states and areas in which becoming a doc. is exceedingly expensive NY, SF, Boston etc.

_______________

I know a good number of doctors. I don't know one who has said they'd prefer their kid(s) be RNs, NPs, PAs over being a doc.

My MIL was an ER supervising RN for decades. She was very direct that she wanted her kids to become docs. lawyers, engineers etc.
Im in California. I work in Healthcare now. I know lots of Doctors. We have a residency program for newly minted Doctors. It is difficult to get them to stay because of the cost of living here in our area. Many leave the area because they have so much student loan debt.

The Doctors that we have in our program are from USC. The average student that graduates with a four year degree will have spent $300,000 to get that degree. I am not talking Doctors, just any 4 year degree. Can you imagine how much a newly minted Doctor will have spent?

RN's on the other hand can jump into the field a lot more easily than a Doctor. They have at max 4 patients a shift. They work three 12 hour shifts. Many hospitals will pay back their student loan debt over time. For their troubles they can easily make $100,000 a year and on up to $200,000 a year.
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Old 12-16-2019, 02:15 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,289 posts, read 28,359,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Organic chemistry has things to memorize, but it is much easier than physical chemistry. (I am not sure if biology majors take it, but chemistry majors do.)
The subjects themselves may not be inherently difficult. But the professors/schools make the tests difficult intentionally such that the majority of students flunk out. They call it a process of elimination. Only the cream of the crop will get through pre-med and even get a shot at taking the MCAT.

I experienced a similar thing with engineering. I don't even consider myself to be "cream of the crop" but survived it somehow.
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Old 12-16-2019, 02:21 PM
 
9,952 posts, read 6,585,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
Im in California. I work in Healthcare now. I know lots of Doctors. We have a residency program for newly minted Doctors. It is difficult to get them to stay because of the cost of living here in our area. Many leave the area because they have so much student loan debt.

The Doctors that we have in our program are from USC. The average student that graduates with a four year degree will have spent $300,000 to get that degree. I am not talking Doctors, just any 4 year degree. Can you imagine how much a newly minted Doctor will have spent?

RN's on the other hand can jump into the field a lot more easily than a Doctor. They have at max 4 patients a shift. They work three 12 hour shifts. Many hospitals will pay back their student loan debt over time. For their troubles they can easily make $100,000 a year and on up to $200,000 a year.
Most people aren’t paying sticker to get their undergrad degree. If you go to the USC web page, most students come out with $22K worth of debt for undergrad. https://about.usc.edu/cost-and-value/. I don’t think you can compare the debt load of students who go to a high cost private university in an expensive urban area with students who have gone to a public university in a lower cost of living area.
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:39 PM
 
18,487 posts, read 15,447,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFisher View Post
My wife demands that one of our kids become a doctor, regardless of their interest. Or I should say she attempts to nurture their interest in this field.

I think this is primarily due to the conventional thinking that doctors are one of the best professions.

Is that conventional thinking still true on the eve of 2020?
I don't know how one can predict the future, but there is some risk that the medical profession will be subject to automation risk. It's already happening in radiology, for example. Depending on the age of this kid, it may be a while before you have a clear picture of what things are like at the time this kid would be potentially entering med school.
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:24 PM
 
Location: SoCal
20,160 posts, read 12,668,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
Most people aren’t paying sticker to get their undergrad degree. If you go to the USC web page, most students come out with $22K worth of debt for undergrad. https://about.usc.edu/cost-and-value/. I don’t think you can compare the debt load of students who go to a high cost private university in an expensive urban area with students who have gone to a public university in a lower cost of living area.
I think most medical programs cost more than undergraduate programs for the same school.
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Redwood Shores, CA
1,651 posts, read 1,271,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
I don't know how one can predict the future, but there is some risk that the medical profession will be subject to automation risk. It's already happening in radiology, for example. Depending on the age of this kid, it may be a while before you have a clear picture of what things are like at the time this kid would be potentially entering med school.
Whether we like it or not, we all need to do some future predicting, right? Automation itself is a prediction - to what level is anyone's guess. Will machines kill us all? Who knows.

Personally I am inclined to guide kids toward the future based on our best prediction of the future, instead of what conventional thinking says. If being a doctor is still desirable in the future in the age of automation that's fine, just that I often heard doctors complain how tough this field has become...
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:14 PM
 
10,181 posts, read 10,207,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Organic chemistry has things to memorize, but it is much easier than physical chemistry. (I am not sure if biology majors take it, but chemistry majors do.)
Bio majors don't take high level chem classes meant for chem majors.

Just like chem majors don't take high level bio classes meant for bio majors.
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Old 12-17-2019, 04:30 AM
 
9,952 posts, read 6,585,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
I think most medical programs cost more than undergraduate programs for the same school.
That poster previously said people have $1mil in student loan debt after going to medical school. That is so far from the truth. Someone else pointed out that the average debt is about $250k. Many state medical schools have tuition that is about $35k a year. That should be about $200-220k with living expenses.
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Old 12-17-2019, 10:27 AM
 
19,521 posts, read 17,753,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
That poster previously said people have $1mil in student loan debt after going to medical school. That is so far from the truth. Someone else pointed out that the average debt is about $250k. Many state medical schools have tuition that is about $35k a year. That should be about $200-220k with living expenses.
My daughter is an MS-1 at Baylor tuition, health insurance, malpractice, white coat ceremony, lab fee etc. was a shade under $28,000 this year.

My son went to UTSW........just looked it up this year tuition, books, health insurance etc. is a shade under $25,000.

USC is a shade over $66K, Columbia $67 etc.

______________________________________

I read somewhere that fewer than 110 people in The US have $1,000,000 or more in student loan debt. You can bet your bottom dollar that most of them are MD + Ph.D or MD + long residency + lengthy Fellowship types and they went to expensive UG and medical school and financed and deferred to the max.
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