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Old 12-20-2019, 03:19 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,549 posts, read 28,630,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
I think going to medical school is indeed a western/American thing.
None of the top students in my high school (in China) chose to study medicine. They all went for engineering and sciences. Some finance. The admissions scores of medical schools are also lower than engineering programs of the same university.

In developing countries like China, doctors are not paid very well, but engineers are in high demand. At entry level, an engineer is usually paid twice as much as a doctor.
Also, schools in China emphasize math and physics, so good students tend to pick math-heavy subjects when they can.
Doctors are highly paid and high status in India.

It used to be that every Indian parent wanted their child to be a doctor or an engineer.
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Old 12-20-2019, 07:15 PM
 
19,778 posts, read 18,055,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
Part of the mission of osteopathic medicine is a focus on primary care, so I don’t think you can fault the schooling for graduates being “over represented” in primary care fields. That doesn’t necessarily mean it is a worse option, it just means it is a different option and that applicants have to decide what their interests are before entering the program. Someone who wants to enter dermatology or neurosurgery might not be best served by choosing to attend a school of osteopathic medicine. My mom is a mostly retired (MD) physician and sees nothing wrong with choosing it as an option and thinks DOs are better prepared for a career in primary care than MDs are.

Through this year, the AOA had is own match, so simply looking at the NRMP doesn’t paint the whole picture as osteopathic students could choose to do the AOA match or the NRMP. Starting in spring, everyone has to do the NRMP. Students from osteopathic medical schools tended to do slightly worse on the USMLE, so that might have also had something to do with the lower rates of acceptance into more competitive residencies. I am not sure how that will change with a combined program.
That's a good post. However, the guy I responded to made the claim that DO=MD in terms of prestige, access and overall value and that's just not the case.

As the DO pathway more and more moves toward the MCAT, USMLE Steps 1, 2, and 3 and a single match system my guess is DO schools will be forced to ratchet up admissions metrics.

US News rankings for 2020 have the top DO school in the country, University of North Texas HSC, ranked at #71. In other words the best DO school in the country is roughly the 5th or 6th best medical school in Texas.

As most DO students do not take the USMLE Step 1 so the 6 or 7 point gap between DO and MD test takers is near meaningless.
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Old 12-21-2019, 06:06 AM
 
9,952 posts, read 6,665,261 times
Reputation: 19661
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
That's a good post. However, the guy I responded to made the claim that DO=MD in terms of prestige, access and overall value and that's just not the case.

As the DO pathway more and more moves toward the MCAT, USMLE Steps 1, 2, and 3 and a single match system my guess is DO schools will be forced to ratchet up admissions metrics.

US News rankings for 2020 have the top DO school in the country, University of North Texas HSC, ranked at #71. In other words the best DO school in the country is roughly the 5th or 6th best medical school in Texas.

As most DO students do not take the USMLE Step 1 so the 6 or 7 point gap between DO and MD test takers is near meaningless.
I don’t disagree with you there. In my basic research, DO schools are much more expensive. Locally in Chicagoland, unranked Midwestern appears to be about $74K for tuition and fees. Rush is about $56K. Loyola appears to be about $60-61K. I’m from Florida originally. There are only two private medical schools there. Miami is about $48K with tuition and fees. For Florida residents, it is $54,580 at Nova for tuition and fees, and around $6500 more for out-of-state students. Miami has a much better ranking, although Nova is ranked equivalently to some other schools in Florida.

I still think it is a matter of personal choice. My personal choice wouldn’t be to spend that much more money if I had a cheaper, in-state option available. However, some states have few options and ranked Nova, for example, is comparable in price out of state to unranked Loyola, so it not always an easy decision. A friend’s son is going through this process now. It will be interesting to see where he ends up.
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Old 12-21-2019, 08:52 PM
 
3,678 posts, read 4,170,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Doctors are highly paid and high status in India.

It used to be that every Indian parent wanted their child to be a doctor or an engineer.
That’s the case in many third world countries where lack of oppurtunities reduce education to the path of paying bills. In developed western countries, abundance of oppurtunities makes it possible for good students to study anything they love and earn well by achieving excellence.
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Old 12-21-2019, 10:35 PM
 
10,181 posts, read 10,252,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
The other guy, maybe unintentionally, is painting a distorted picture.

1. The one calculus class thing is a minimum possible admissions standard at some medical schools.
Even for Harvard Med School.

Quote:
Math:

One year, including one semester each of calculus and statistics (preferably biostatistics).

An AP score of 4 or 5 on the AB or BC exam can be used to fulfill the one semester of calculus.

AP credits cannot be used to meet the statistics requirement
https://meded.hms.harvard.edu/admiss...uisite-courses


Quote:
2. My son's BS Bio. mathish degree minimum requirements were 1). calculus for majors I and II. 2). calculus based physics I and II................those 14 hours were set in stone. 3). at least three more hours in something like bio. statistics, another physics, another calculus, calculus based statistics, diff-E etc.
My son's college wouldn't let him take PHY I & II, over the summer of his freshman year and at our state Uni (RU) because neither were calc-based physics. He took PHY I at at Lehigh - had to live on campus (his college's summer PHY I class was filled) and then took PHY II at his college.

Quote:
3. The other guy is also co-mingling bio. majors and medical school admits. Most bio. majors have no shot at medical school. Just as most bio. majors can't get into medical school, most chemistry majors can't either nor most math majors etc.
Yes. It all comes down to knowing which classes one needs to take in order to be prepared to achieve a decent score on the MCAT & what the undergrad pre-reqs for medical schools are BEYOND the "official" pre-reqs and a good MCAT score: research and time spent in clinical scenarios such as shadowing, scribing, as well as not being a complete dork with zero personality...volunteering or being an RA or a tutor or having a hobby or playing a sport during your undergrad years. As opposed to living in your dorm room the library/lab and only creeping out to go to a class, lab, eat, etc. "Well rounded" is what my friend has always told my son from day one; and he is now on the NYU Med School admissions board.

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Old 12-22-2019, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Henderson, NV
7,087 posts, read 8,629,910 times
Reputation: 9978
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFisher View Post
We do need to guide the kids somewhat. Otherwise my kids would major in video games.

My concern is with basing the picking too much on a profession's traditional allure, rather than the outlook today, especially in these changing times. I've heard doctors complain that their business cannot survive in today's healthcare chaos.
So what if they did major in video games?! Some of the wealthiest young men in the world play video games for a living. They make as much per month as any doctor makes per year.

Never tell your kids what to be interested in, teach them how to work hard and apply themselves, to be dedicated and never quit on their dreams, and you’ll end up with winners no matter the field. Money isn’t the only factor, though.

I would never want to work as a doctor, that sounds horrible. I practically gag at the sight of blood. Lol
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Old 12-23-2019, 01:47 AM
 
Location: Taipei
8,864 posts, read 8,435,567 times
Reputation: 7413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
I think going to medical school is indeed a western/American thing.
None of the top students in my high school (in China) chose to study medicine. They all went for engineering and sciences. Some finance. The admissions scores of medical schools are also lower than engineering programs of the same university.

In developing countries like China, doctors are not paid very well, but engineers are in high demand. At entry level, an engineer is usually paid twice as much as a doctor.
Also, schools in China emphasize math and physics, so good students tend to pick math-heavy subjects when they can.
Because doctors are paid **** in China, which reflects on the **** healthcare.
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Old 12-23-2019, 07:59 AM
 
Location: The end of the world
804 posts, read 544,636 times
Reputation: 569
Well....................I assume M.D ( not a doctor ). A doctor is somebody who should be an expert in a subject area. That is what the term Doctor/Masters/PHD means. You are the expert of experts.

A M.D. is a license that allows you to perform medical services on individuals with supervisory of another M.D. who is most likely a PHD, or etc higher up,

Your wife should be thinking more like services a person could perform relating to a medical field, and trying to get her son into that position as soon as possible.

I do not know what kind of women your wife is but the thing about girls is that they have a transition of men within relationship.

A. Guy who is funny and great sex
B. Guy who is dominate and could careless about going to jail
C. Guy who can provide for her


So I assume your wife is thinking about her son being able to land an art-***** ( like my peer students ) which could be between an actress, painter, designer, or school teacher.

I do not know how she thinks or calculates her son but in my opinion I find many people in medical studies while they do turn out nice and are able to find spouses that are nice they have many failures.

https://tribunewhat.wordpress.com/20...-opposite-sex/

Read this article ( more like a list )

Many science majors might have money but fails in other areas.

The last thing I want is my son with a money-grubbing w h o r e. The last thing I want is a woman capable of being a money grubbing w h o r e

There are many controlling and abusive spouse relationships that is money dependent and "she" just jumps from one wallet to the next wallet and the next wallet.

That is the way I see it. Your wife might not be telling the whole story or I do not know what kind of relationship you guys have. I know somebodies wife who was a pornstar I admired, and watch from time to time. I know somebodies wife who literally got her money from working as a human dog being shared by people. We do not talk about those things and because I know these people my problem is when you eventually run into them and make it clear

You are not going to use me for my money and be a parasite. It is not love. Your "wife" is basically knows the outcome of many majors and see far too many failures so is trying to give him a safe outlook on life.

Again it does not mean your son will make wise choices with his income. I know people with no education, no HS and have money from investing.
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Old 12-23-2019, 09:39 AM
 
19,778 posts, read 18,055,300 times
Reputation: 17257
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanArt View Post
Well....................I assume M.D ( not a doctor ). A doctor is somebody who should be an expert in a subject area. That is what the term Doctor/Masters/PHD means. You are the expert of experts.

A M.D. is a license that allows you to perform medical services on individuals with supervisory of another M.D. who is most likely a PHD, or etc higher up,
Basically none of that is correct, assuming we are talking about docs. and Ph.Ds in The US.

In this context MD = medicinae doctor, straight from the Latin. In other words doctor of medicine.

An MD or DO degree, with no exceptions I believe, and a residency or residency substitute (a few primary care pathways allow OJT in lieu of residency) is required to become a physician in all states.

Physicians are not required to practice under a Ph.D or MD.+ Ph.D. There are few MD+Ph.Ds in The US and most go into research and or academica. The overwhelming majority - far more than 95% of full time clinicians do not have a Ph.D.

Medical residents must work under a licensed physician, who may or may not be physically present, that physician, usually referred to as an"attending physician" must have an MD and may or may not have a Ph.D........the overwhelming majority of attendings do not.


In fact the closest real life example of what you are talking about works the other way. Many physician assistants have Ph.D credentials. Starting in 2020 or '21 all new PA's will have Ph.Ds..................PAs work under MDs in nearly all clinical settings.
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Old 12-23-2019, 09:55 AM
 
19,778 posts, read 18,055,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Informed Info View Post
Even for Harvard Med School.



https://meded.hms.harvard.edu/admiss...uisite-courses




My son's college wouldn't let him take PHY I & II, over the summer of his freshman year and at our state Uni (RU) because neither were calc-based physics. He took PHY I at at Lehigh - had to live on campus (his college's summer PHY I class was filled) and then took PHY II at his college.



Yes. It all comes down to knowing which classes one needs to take in order to be prepared to achieve a decent score on the MCAT & what the undergrad pre-reqs for medical schools are BEYOND the "official" pre-reqs and a good MCAT score: research and time spent in clinical scenarios such as shadowing, scribing, as well as not being a complete dork with zero personality...volunteering or being an RA or a tutor or having a hobby or playing a sport during your undergrad years. As opposed to living in your dorm room the library/lab and only creeping out to go to a class, lab, eat, etc. "Well rounded" is what my friend has always told my son from day one; and he is now on the NYU Med School admissions board.

The point still stands that the minimum prerequisites are only bare minimums that are very rarely enough.

NYU for example does not enforce prerequisites. However, they require a degree and very high MCAT scores on balance.

_____________________

This may come as a surprise but you are not the only one with friends and acquaintances on medical school admissions boards.
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