Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-11-2020, 06:47 PM
 
19,797 posts, read 18,085,519 times
Reputation: 17279

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
[1] Society? Or self interest groups? Or intrusive governments? In many countries, you don't need permission slips (prescriptions) to buy pharmaceuticals.

[2] The last time I was in college, it was about guided self study. The professor did very little 'teaching'. He just assigned reading and what was to be covered on the tests. You could ask questions later, but often there was material in the tests never discussed in class.

[3] There is no proof that a licensed physician is more competent than an unlicensed physician. In fact, if licensing insured competence, why would there be malpractice torts? Befriend a doctor and you will get an earful of the morons he/she finds in hospitals and clinics. I personally experienced one "bone specialist" who was incompetent. He placed a leg cast that failed to immobilize both joints around a fracture. When I showed the cast to my family physician he remarked "What idiot did this?" I replied that it was the head of the osteopathy department at a county hospital.

It's no surprise that patients seek SECOND OPINIONS. Physicians are not infallible. Trust them at your peril.
1. All of the above. No prescription pharmaceuticals is almost exclusively a second and third world thing. For one thing no prescription antibiotics is flat out stupid. Not prescription serious pain killers might be a worse idea.

2. It appears you had bad professors. I've had several myself. However, in every syllabus I've ever read including those I give my students there is verbiage aplenty explaining that test book reading is required and test questions may/will be drawn from the text across topics not discussed in class. Every US college student - ever - has dealt with that not just you.

3. There is endless evidence licensed doctors are more competent than back of the van types. My son is a PGY-3 neurosurgery resident. My daughter is an MS-1 (first year medical student). If you break your neck or require brain surgery you are going to want someone like my son. Not some dude from the local bar or Home Depot parking lot.

I don't know what kind of leg fracture you suffered but according to my daughter, who is sitting next to me, immobilizing both joints around a leg fracture has generally been avoided whenever possible since at least the 1960s. Further, I broke my right tibia several year ago snow skiing......guess what my cast terminated well below my knee.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-11-2020, 07:30 PM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,253,078 times
Reputation: 7764
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
I'm just curious what are the several professions that generally pay better than medicine?
In terms of aptitude it's a wash. Medicine just does quality control up front, for not bad reasons.

If you have the chops to be a physician you would rise to a comparable level of pay in any number of careers. Physicians also work mega hours and looking at hourly pay it's even more of a wash.

If the healthcare industry was like other industries, you might start out your career as a phlebotomist, eventually get promoted to RN, and later get promoted to MD. Conversely if other industries were like healthcare, you would go to school for 10 years and graduate into a VP or C level position and stay there for your entire career.

I'm not saying one is better than the other. They are different for good reasons, but the same crowd is funneling into the MD and C suite jobs.

Do what you enjoy and are passionate about.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2020, 07:41 PM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,253,078 times
Reputation: 7764
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Average US doctor pay is right at $300K. Enterprise software on average pays a lot less than that.
With stock vesting Google pay starts at almost $200k per year for software engineers. That's in your mid-twenties. It rises from there.

https://www.levels.fyi/salary/Google/

Monetarily the biggest upside of medicine is being able to live in a low COL area, but most physicians don't take advantage.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2020, 08:18 PM
 
19,797 posts, read 18,085,519 times
Reputation: 17279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
With stock vesting Google pay starts at almost $200k per year for software engineers. That's in your mid-twenties. It rises from there.

https://www.levels.fyi/salary/Google/

Monetarily the biggest upside of medicine is being able to live in a low COL area, but most physicians don't take advantage.
That's right, underserved areas are desperate for certain specialists - the super money in these situations usually revolves around specialists - per situation and will often pay far better than peer averages in big cities or the coasts sometimes much better.

Google software engineers are not average software engineers in bonafides, selection process, performance expectations or pay. It's misinforming to compare maybe top 3%ers in one field to the legit average of another.

Whatever percentile Google software engineers rate amongst all their peers, again let's call it 97th percentile for fun..................the similar percentile of new doc. specialists will make much more money maybe triple the Google number.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2020, 08:20 PM
 
19,797 posts, read 18,085,519 times
Reputation: 17279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
In terms of aptitude it's a wash. Medicine just does quality control up front, for not bad reasons.

If you have the chops to be a physician you would rise to a comparable level of pay in any number of careers. Physicians also work mega hours and looking at hourly pay it's even more of a wash.

If the healthcare industry was like other industries, you might start out your career as a phlebotomist, eventually get promoted to RN, and later get promoted to MD. Conversely if other industries were like healthcare, you would go to school for 10 years and graduate into a VP or C level position and stay there for your entire career.

I'm not saying one is better than the other. They are different for good reasons, but the same crowd is funneling into the MD and C suite jobs.

Do what you enjoy and are passionate about.
What do you mean by your aptitude point?


Further, I agree with much of what you wrote.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2020, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,851 posts, read 5,873,004 times
Reputation: 11467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
With stock vesting Google pay starts at almost $200k per year for software engineers. That's in your mid-twenties. It rises from there.

https://www.levels.fyi/salary/Google/

Monetarily the biggest upside of medicine is being able to live in a low COL area, but most physicians don't take advantage.
This is a long thread, but early on in it, it was mentioned that the monetary aspect is only part of the prestige of being a doctor. For many (and in many cultures), the intellectual accomplishment of becoming a doctor and always having that title in front of your name is more important. I can guarantee that in some cultures, parents would dream of their son/daughter becoming a doctor over a rich Google exec, athlete, entertainer, etc...even if they could make more in those positions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2020, 08:30 PM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,253,078 times
Reputation: 7764
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
That's right, underserved areas are desperate for certain specialists - the super money in these situations usually revolves around specialists - per situation and will often pay far better than peer averages in big cities or the coasts sometimes much better.

Google software engineers are not average software engineers in bonafides, selection process, performance expectations or pay. It's misinforming to compare maybe top 3%ers in one field to the legit average of another.

Whatever percentile Google software engineers rate amongst all their peers, again let's call it 97th percentile for fun..................the similar percentile of new doc. specialists will make much more money maybe triple the Google number.
What I mean by "aptitude" is that the same person who makes it into med school also has a good chance of making it into Google. They are in the upper percentiles of their cohort.

The type of person who works back office IT or dev at a non-software company would be an ultrasound tech in the medical field.

You're comparing a small slice of an industry with an entire industry. That healthcare is stratified into all of these different silos with their own licensing requirements is what makes healthcare a weird industry. The ultrasound tech and the spinal surgeon are both healthcare workers, just as the system admin at an insurance company and the machine learning PhD at Google are both in the information industry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2020, 08:33 PM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,253,078 times
Reputation: 7764
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
This is a long thread, but early on in it, it was mentioned that the monetary aspect is only part of the prestige of being a doctor. For many (and in many cultures), the intellectual accomplishment of becoming a doctor and always having that title in front of your name is more important. I can guarantee that in some cultures, parents would dream of their son/daughter becoming a doctor over a rich Google exec, athlete, entertainer, etc...even if they could make more in those positions.
You shouldn't choose a career based on what your parents want. You will be doing the work, not them.

Do what you like.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2020, 08:58 PM
 
19,797 posts, read 18,085,519 times
Reputation: 17279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
What I mean by "aptitude" is that the same person who makes it into med school also has a good chance of making it into Google. They are in the upper percentiles of their cohort.

The type of person who works back office IT or dev at a non-software company would be an ultrasound tech in the medical field.

You're comparing a small slice of an industry with an entire industry. That healthcare is stratified into all of these different silos with their own licensing requirements is what makes healthcare a weird industry. The ultrasound tech and the spinal surgeon are both healthcare workers, just as the system admin at an insurance company and the machine learning PhD at Google are both in the information industry.
Again I agree with much of that. However, you are the one who compared a tiny slice of one cadre, Google software engineers, to the average of another, all doctors. Of course healthcare is stratified but this whole thread has been mostly about doctors.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2020, 09:32 AM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,253,078 times
Reputation: 7764
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Again I agree with much of that. However, you are the one who compared a tiny slice of one cadre, Google software engineers, to the average of another, all doctors. Of course healthcare is stratified but this whole thread has been mostly about doctors.
The "cohort" I am referring to is an entire birth cohort. As I have stated in many ways, the top <1% of each birth cohort is capable of becoming either a doctor or a Google software engineer.

The cohort, as I am using the term, is not confined to any profession.

Software development is a very loosely defined "profession" that covers many people of varying skills and abilities. Medicine is a much more tightly controlled profession and the average physician is more talented than the average software engineer for that reason. However the information and healthcare industries cover a wide range of people, and the upper echelons of both are comparable.

If you define the upper echelon of healthcare as a medical specialist, then you should define the upper echelon of the information industry as a VP or CTO at a large tech company. That is how rare those people are.

If you define the upper echelon of healthcare as all physicians, then you should define the upper echelon of the information industry as software engineers at Silicon Valley firms that pay much higher than the industry average, the so-called FAANG companies.

The entire profession, if you can call it that, of software development is huge with many more people than medicine. That means the quality of its average member will be lower. So comparing a huge, loosely-defined group of people with a small, tightly-controlled group of people is apples and oranges.

The only meaningful way to compare healthcare and information careers is to compare the prospects for people from the same global birth year cohort, which in the case of medicine requires a cohort that is the top <1%. The information industry analogue for a medical doctor is a FAANG engineer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top