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Old 07-02-2020, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Avignon, France
11,157 posts, read 7,952,361 times
Reputation: 28937

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFisher View Post
We do need to guide the kids somewhat. Otherwise my kids would major in video games.

My concern is with basing the picking too much on a profession's traditional allure, rather than the outlook today, especially in these changing times. I've heard doctors complain that their business cannot survive in today's healthcare chaos.
Our parents didn’t push us towards and particular profession, but they did put a lot of emphasis on getting a good education so that we would have options. My brother followed my dad into the law.. I went stem.
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Old 07-02-2020, 03:37 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,659 posts, read 3,853,671 times
Reputation: 5947
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Several colleges offer a major in game design, but I think "major in playing video games" is at this point still a bit of hyperbole.
Hyperbole is a nicer word than I would have used; TexasLawyer2000 referenced a 'major in video games' in post #5.
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Old 07-02-2020, 05:39 PM
 
19,778 posts, read 18,055,300 times
Reputation: 17257
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTP2020 View Post
That isn't worth it to me. Sorry. But what's "worth it" is obviously subjective.


It wouldn't be worth it to me to be broke for the first 30-35 years of my life to finally start making money in my late 30's or 40s. I'm glad I got out of school at a reasonable age, got to start making money in my 20's and got to actually enjoy my money in my 20s. If I choose to start a family, I can do so at a healthy age. I'm friends with so many residents/doctors that finish residency and immediately have to start trying have a kid before they hit 40. If I actually WANTED to be a doctor, I'm sure all of that would be worth it, but I don't. If my mother had've succeeded in pushing me down that path just for the bragging rights, as it seems OP's wife is trying to do, I would have resented her for it.
It's good that you were able to resist your mom's attempts to drive you toward something you didn't want to do. Becoming a doc. without a legit desire to be a doc. would be miserable.

It's pretty clear though you are oversimplifying all this a good bit or maybe your medical resident buddies are outliers, that's always possible.

My son and his wife are both medical residents. They are 28 and 27. Their family income puts them right at the 79th percentile of US family earnings. They also have a 5 month old. They are far from the picture of starving residents who have no fun surviving on tortillas, peanut butter and spam. They've saved some, paid off some of her debt, own their own home (albeit with a mortgage) take vacations, drive fairly nice cars etc.
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Old 07-02-2020, 10:10 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,659 posts, read 3,853,671 times
Reputation: 5947
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTP2020 View Post

It wouldn't be worth it to me to be broke for the first 30-35 years of my life to finally start making money in my late 30's or 40s. I'm glad I got out of school at a reasonable age, got to start making money in my 20's and got to actually enjoy my money in my 20s. If I choose to start a family, I can do so at a healthy age. I'm friends with so many residents/doctors that finish residency and immediately have to start trying have a kid before they hit 40. If I actually WANTED to be a doctor, I'm sure all of that would be worth it, but I don't. If my mother had've succeeded in pushing me down that path just for the bragging rights, as it seems OP's wife is trying to do, I would have resented her for it.
It wouldn't be worth it to me either; that said, it's probably fair to state most don't become physicians on account of money or an expectation of stress-free living. What drives many is the perception of 'good' which is associated with the career choice vs. 'bad' which is often associated with other (often more successful) career choices i.e. law, business, and so on. Everyone believes a physician wears the 'white cowboy hat'; lawyers and CEO's would don black cowboy hats, if it was an old-school western movie analogy.
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Old 07-04-2020, 12:50 AM
 
19,778 posts, read 18,055,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
It wouldn't be worth it to me either; that said, it's probably fair to state most don't become physicians on account of money or an expectation of stress-free living. What drives many is the perception of 'good' which is associated with the career choice vs. 'bad' which is often associated with other (often more successful) career choices i.e. law, business, and so on. Everyone believes a physician wears the 'white cowboy hat'; lawyers and CEO's would don black cowboy hats, if it was an old-school western movie analogy.
I'm not sure many MD/DO types see themselves vs. others in the black/white/good/bad light you describe. Among most of the young med. students and doctors I know there is a genuine desire to drive positive outcomes for patients. And for sure docs are a high confidence bunch.......very few people are capable of running the college - residency and testing gauntlet docs must and everyone knows as much. That's different than believing other professionals are black hats IMO.
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Old 07-04-2020, 05:32 AM
 
Location: Huntsville Area
1,948 posts, read 1,513,658 times
Reputation: 2998
Doctors are a fine profession. But who knows whether it'll be such a good profession in the future with so many hospitals buying out the doctors' groups.

Many doctors today wish they'd chosen a different profession. They get tired fighting with insurance companies and the government on regulations. They're increasingly being told by states what they can and cannot do. They don't like to be told to invest in new technology in order to get paid on Medicare and Medicaid electronically.

Bureaucrats with no medical training are telling anesthesiologists with pain management fellowships what medicines they can use, and to cut back on the doses 30-40-50% or more. Some of the medicines cost $800 per month, and patients are going to street drugs like heroin and fentanyl to get out of pain. And what's never been mentioned is that so many chronically ill are dying. And to physicians, all lives matter.

With politics getting more and more into medicine, it's just becoming a less enjoyable profession.
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Old 07-04-2020, 05:58 AM
 
5,214 posts, read 4,015,953 times
Reputation: 3468
After watching several videos of patients with rabies on youtube the other day I'm still depressed for life lol so to all these kids I'd say: no, don't do it. I mean I get it it's a noble thing to care for other people but still: no, just no...find another way to help humanity.
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:54 AM
 
19,778 posts, read 18,055,300 times
Reputation: 17257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamaman1 View Post
Doctors are a fine profession. But who knows whether it'll be such a good profession in the future with so many hospitals buying out the doctors' groups.

Many doctors today wish they'd chosen a different profession. They get tired fighting with insurance companies and the government on regulations. They're increasingly being told by states what they can and cannot do. They don't like to be told to invest in new technology in order to get paid on Medicare and Medicaid electronically.

Bureaucrats with no medical training are telling anesthesiologists with pain management fellowships what medicines they can use, and to cut back on the doses 30-40-50% or more. Some of the medicines cost $800 per month, and patients are going to street drugs like heroin and fentanyl to get out of pain. And what's never been mentioned is that so many chronically ill are dying. And to physicians, all lives matter.

With politics getting more and more into medicine, it's just becoming a less enjoyable profession.
There's a good bit of truth to what you wrote. However, oft times practices are sold to hospitals or docs. literally work for hospitals/larger concerns to minimize exposure to the things mentioned in your second paragraph.

If you burrow into doc. satisfaction surveys several items emerge.
1). US doctors are a much happier bunch than media reports suggest with a very dissatisfied cadre comprising around 12% of the whole.
2). A dive into international analysis shows similar to worse very dissatisfied doc numbers across the first world.
3). I read recently that ~24% of Germany docs. consider themselves depressed...The US number was 4%.
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Old 07-05-2020, 10:23 AM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,659 posts, read 3,853,671 times
Reputation: 5947
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
I'm not sure many MD/DO types see themselves vs. others in the black/white/good/bad light you describe. Among most of the young med. students and doctors I know there is a genuine desire to drive positive outcomes for patients. And for sure docs are a high confidence bunch.......very few people are capable of running the college - residency and testing gauntlet docs must and everyone knows as much. That's different than believing other professionals are black hats IMO.
I wasn't speaking to how MD types see themselves or in re: 'running colleges', for that matter. My comment was relative to the thread i.e. becoming a doctor as a coveted goal by kids.

When a kid expresses interest in becoming a doctor, he is likely to receive positive encouragement (and then some) i.e. it's a respectable and lofty goal to have. Point being, however, if a child expresses an interest in business, law, or other fields which ultimately may prove to be more lucrative long-term, said child is likely to be met with (at least a few) eyerolls or discouragement. It's entirely based in re: perception and stereotype relative to 'greed' or 'immorality'. Hence, the 'black cowboy hat' analogy.
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Old 07-05-2020, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Texas
13,480 posts, read 8,371,084 times
Reputation: 25948
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
My son and his wife are both medical residents. They are 28 and 27. Their family income puts them right at the 79th percentile of US family earnings. They also have a 5 month old. They are far from the picture of starving residents who have no fun surviving on tortillas, peanut butter and spam. They've saved some, paid off some of her debt, own their own home (albeit with a mortgage) take vacations, drive fairly nice cars etc.
It's really hard to know what someone's financial picture really is. Perhaps their parents or families helped them out. People often won't give the whole story.

I think that student loan debt for two married doctors must be staggering, unless they both got full scholarships. It sounds to me like they are living outside of their means and possibly doing a lot on credit cards. But that's just my opinion. Many professionals buy cars & homes they can't afford, to give the illusion of success.
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