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Old 06-17-2023, 08:46 AM
 
7,264 posts, read 3,485,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
What really put ideas of the medical profession to bed for me was some sage advice from a pre-med counselor in college. He asked if I enjoy being around people who are sick, elderly, or sick and elderly.
I thought I wanted to be a doctor up until the summer before I started college. That summer, I had an epiphany -- doctors spend much of their time going among tiny rooms with no windows, listening to people whine and complain. I realized that was my idea of the Theological Place of Eternal Punishment.
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Old 06-17-2023, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Capital Region, NY
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My mom was a nurse. Every so often she would have me accompany her to her work. I didn’t like the environment, the smells, etc. Medicine was never an option I considered for a profession.

That being said, I admire those professionals who devote their training, skills, time, and effort to help people. I have an in-law who is a GP and for years she worked around the clock. But now she has reduced her hours in a local practice and is enjoying life.

I have no idea what the average income is in each field of medicine, but I would guess it is 300g+.
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Old 06-21-2023, 05:40 PM
 
9,952 posts, read 6,568,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefret View Post
Retired RN here. Even before I became a nurse, I became aware of how much time some doctors spent in the hospital when I was hospitalized with my second delivery and heard my OB constantly paged day and night.

Working as a nurse I saw doctors in certain specialities put in incredible hours when on call. Having to call a physician to come in at 3 AM, I never considered the disruption to his home life as it was all about the patient.

I worked in an ICU so the docs worked under stressful and demanding conditions and I noticed that, when they reached their early 50s, they began to show a weariness and lack of enthusiasm.

Then there was the drama. Affairs with other staff members were fairly common. I saw a group practice split up over this among other reasons. It wasn't unusual for group practices to split up after years together which involved attorneys to handle each one's interests and more
drama.

Certain less demanding specialties weren't exempt from drama. A physician in my dermatologist's office lost her license due to drug use (was performing surgical procedures while obviously zoned out).

My podiatrist got in trouble over drugs but still in practice. An ENT arrested for drug use and I never figured this out but he was somehow on house arrest but could come into the hospital when on call.

So, what I'm saying is that there's the prestige, but not necessarily the money, depending on the specialty, and there is a toll to be paid regarding personal life and satisfaction.
I think a lot of people are realizing that for ROI, there are a lot of jobs that can pay fairly well in medicine that don’t require the education. I take pottery with 3 allied health professionals. It’s a pretty expensive hobby- probably averaging a good $200 a month with the tuition for the classes and the various tools/new clay you might need. They have enough time to take the class and the money to afford it. In many of these jobs, you can make almost 6 figures if not over 6 figures with just an associate’s degree. That’s not at all considering the overall time and money commitment. No, you’re not going to live a lavish lifestyle, but it’s still comfortable enough.
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Old 06-21-2023, 05:47 PM
 
Location: southwestern PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfas View Post

I have no idea what the average income is in each field of medicine, but I would guess it is 300g+.
It varies widely, according to specialty. Several average less than $300k.
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Old 06-22-2023, 06:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Pitt Chick View Post
It varies widely, according to specialty. Several average less than $300k.
Not to mention that in some specialties, malpractice insurance can top six figures. When you are coming out with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and also have to pay $100K in med mal insurance, it may be considerably less appealing.
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Old 06-22-2023, 06:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
Not to mention that in some specialties, malpractice insurance can top six figures. When you are coming out with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and also have to pay $100K in med mal insurance, it may be considerably less appealing.
As always tho. details matter.

1. Average total debt of those graduating medical school is a shade over $200K. So that angle is real.

2. Malpractice insurance premiums can top $100K but rarely do. About the only way to get there is to A. have lost multiple suits in the past/be coming off of some sort of probationary period or B. practice plastics, major OB-GYN surgery, urological surgery, neurosurgery and some general surgery areas and practice in one of the several states with insane lawsuit landscapes........Arizona, Indiana, Illinois, much of the eastern seaboard, some of south Florida etc.


FE my son is in the process of buying his first post education neurosurgery malpractice policy. Bottom line a $3MM policy for him is around $57K. Neuros are sued the most often, proportionally, and the payouts are the largest.
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Old 06-22-2023, 08:01 AM
 
9,952 posts, read 6,568,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
As always tho. details matter.

1. Average total debt of those graduating medical school is a shade over $200K. So that angle is real.

2. Malpractice insurance premiums can top $100K but rarely do. About the only way to get there is to A. have lost multiple suits in the past/be coming off of some sort of probationary period or B. practice plastics, major OB-GYN surgery, urological surgery, neurosurgery and some general surgery areas and practice in one of the several states with insane lawsuit landscapes........Arizona, Indiana, Illinois, much of the eastern seaboard, some of south Florida etc.


FE my son is in the process of buying his first post education neurosurgery malpractice policy. Bottom line a $3MM policy for him is around $57K. Neuros are sued the most often, proportionally, and the payouts are the largest.
Yes, but you can’t deny that this combination may make working as a doctor less appealing, particularly since debt is $200K NOW, but anyone considering med school in 2023 will likely not be looking at finishing until 2028 at the earliest assuming they are in the process of taking the MCAT and applying this fall.

On a slightly related front, I listen to older books from Audible+ from time to time and was listening to a dystopian medical thriller that is about 30 years old. The predictions were creepily accurate, and they were talking about how outrageous the student loans were then at $25-30K a year all-in. I am in IL and it looks like the cost of attendance at U of I ranges from $82-86k for M1 depending on which campus you select for the first two years.
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Old 06-22-2023, 09:01 AM
 
19,471 posts, read 17,695,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
Yes, but you can’t deny that this combination may make working as a doctor less appealing, particularly since debt is $200K NOW, but anyone considering med school in 2023 will likely not be looking at finishing until 2028 at the earliest assuming they are in the process of taking the MCAT and applying this fall.

On a slightly related front, I listen to older books from Audible+ from time to time and was listening to a dystopian medical thriller that is about 30 years old. The predictions were creepily accurate, and they were talking about how outrageous the student loans were then at $25-30K a year all-in. I am in IL and it looks like the cost of attendance at U of I ranges from $82-86k for M1 depending on which campus you select for the first two years.

May is a big word. Obviously, individual circumstances matter. However, I've calculated various ROI-ish analyses for a good number of rising docs. and docs. Usually imposing time and grief based opportunity costs as well.

The fact is unless someone does it stupidly or has zero financial side self discipline the doc. gig is awesome. Exceptions.....big time undergraduate debt, DO, Caribbean or some of the very expensive US based MD/allopathic programs or oddball circumstances like my son's friend who has all of an MS, Ph.D, MD with residencies in both radiology and neurosurgery etc. etc. these people are outliers to the point.
All this talk implying those who want to be docs. shouldn't due to debt is just ignorant, oddball exceptions noted.



ETA - sorry this post sounds way more argumentative than I intended.

Last edited by EDS_; 06-22-2023 at 09:40 AM..
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Old 06-22-2023, 09:54 AM
 
1,504 posts, read 1,005,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
I think a lot of people are realizing that for ROI, there are a lot of jobs that can pay fairly well in medicine that don’t require the education. I take pottery with 3 allied health professionals. It’s a pretty expensive hobby- probably averaging a good $200 a month with the tuition for the classes and the various tools/new clay you might need. They have enough time to take the class and the money to afford it. In many of these jobs, you can make almost 6 figures if not over 6 figures with just an associate’s degree. That’s not at all considering the overall time and money commitment. No, you’re not going to live a lavish lifestyle, but it’s still comfortable enough.
I once worked with husband & wife RNs who were traveling nurses. Not only did they make big salaries as travelers but they made out on their housing allotment as they stayed at a campground in their motor home.

Also, they had some sort of business incorporated in Nevada for tax purposes. Not sure what this was as traveling nurses work through an agency, not as independent contractors. Perhaps a little independent contractor work on the side.

I also knew a CT technician who had spent a couple years in Saudi Arabia. As there wasn't much for her to spend money on there, she came home with quite a large amount saved. In addition there was a way to have money put into various investments while there.

So, there are a number of jobs in the health care field where one can make a good salary with an AD and always be assured of full employment.
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Old 06-29-2023, 08:10 AM
 
48 posts, read 27,409 times
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I feel like it's now either medicine or computer science.
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