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In all seriousness, would anyone hire someone who’d “read all the manuals” on HVAC install to put in a new system or would you hire a certified HVAC installer? Therein lies the answer to the question posed on this thread.
It would be best if businesses, guilds and unions provided apprenticeships, specialized training and ongoing education.
Who better to learn from; actual skilled professionals and tradesmen or govt bureaucrats with no skin in the game?
Self Learning. For example let’s say I wanted to be an engineer but couldn’t afford tuition. I don’t want to take out a student loan and be saddled with paying off massive student loans for the rest of my life. So instead I go to the library and take out books related to engineering subjects such as stress dynamics, material science,
fluid dynamics, etc... I make certain that I know all subjects inside/out to become an engineer. Why shouldn’t I be considered a certified engineer. Especially if I know more about engineering than let say a student that graduated with a BS degree in engineering.
You'd have to pass the two competency tests to become certified -- and get the work experience...but sure why not.
Kim Kardashian is doing law school not in school so that system already exists in some way.
It would be best if businesses, guilds and unions provided apprenticeships, specialized training and ongoing education.
Who better to learn from; actual skilled professionals and tradesmen or govt bureaucrats with no skin in the game?
That is kind of how it works now, with nepotism and favoritism deciding who gets the extra schooling. There is always skin in the game when value can be derived from it.
I believe there are such things as CLEP exams where you can take a test and get awarded college credits. I also think you are overestimating the % of the population who can participate in self paced studying in a productive way.
There certainly is value to self taught real life practiced skills.
I'd rather sail in a boat with an experienced captain at the helm rather than someone that has read all the books about sailing and received a certificate but has never been on the water.
I know a guy that went to college for criminal justice (didn't graduate) but he found his way into the world of finance and today he is doing very well in that field despite not having a degree in finance or a MBA etc.. His personality has really helped him along.
There is a value in a degree that shows you have studied and passed the tests to earn it but there is nothing like boots on the ground experience. My friend was able to move up in the company due to his personality and willingness to take on challenges and learn so yes a degree is not needed to do well.
It would be best if businesses, guilds and unions provided apprenticeships, specialized training and ongoing education.
Who better to learn from; actual skilled professionals and tradesmen or govt bureaucrats with no skin in the game?
Electricians have to pass certification tests AND apprentice with a master electrician for a period of time. That makes sense. The master electrician is getting someone who already has proven their ability via passing the certification tests. It works because there’s value for both the master electrician and the apprentice.
That’s what a college degree does for engineering. No engineering firm is going to hire a self taught person over someone who has a degree in engineering. The degree proves they bring value in exchange for their salary. The self taught person brings no proven value, only their word that they “read the books”.
If companies have the choice between someone who has proven their value, they’re always going to hire that person over a question mark.
Self Learning. For example let’s say I wanted to be an engineer but couldn’t afford tuition. I don’t want to take out a student loan and be saddled with paying off massive student loans for the rest of my life. So instead I go to the library and take out books related to engineering subjects such as stress dynamics, material science,
fluid dynamics, etc... I make certain that I know all subjects inside/out to become an engineer. Why shouldn’t I be considered a certified engineer. Especially if I know more about engineering than let say a student that graduated with a BS degree in engineering.
Because you're not a certified engineer. If you don't have a degree, you still have access to jobs, and you use your cover letter, and then the interview, to illustrate your skills despite not having the degree or certification. Get the right company, they'll take you on. I've seen this a few times over the years from companies looking to hire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest
It would be best if businesses, guilds and unions provided apprenticeships, specialized training and ongoing education.
Who better to learn from; actual skilled professionals and tradesmen or govt bureaucrats with no skin in the game?
This is exactly how it should be done. Instead of 'you don't have enough experience', help them gain the experience as an apprentice. A lot of people learn better when they have hands on, real life experiences.
Because you might think you have learned a topic but you really don't know until you take tests. But not only that, some of what goes in high tech programs like engineering is lab work in which you learn to use equipment that you will likely use in a job. Another thing that happens in college that won't in a library is team work - most engineering is done these days with teams of people working together. The ability to parse a hard problem into pieces so multiple people can solve it is really important so colleges teach engineers team building and how to work together. Many of the assignments are to a group of students.
Please...........Don't you know that tests are racist? That they have disparate impact on minorities and women? That they are a symbol of historical ties to colonialism and white supremacy? That enforcing the need for structured learning environments forces you to held hostage to the Higher Education Industrial Complex? Even that team building exercises and group problem solving exercises enforce disparate impact on disadvantaged minorities who may not have had the same opportunities and experiences to work in groups when they were younger (leaving them as a distinct advantage over their always advantaged white brethren)? Don't you KNOW any of that? Where have you BEEN? Under a rock?
You see how stupid our level of conversation has become in this country?
There should be testing. There should be group exercises (not necessarily in a classroom environment but verifiable in some way). If someone has the skill test, the knowledge set, and meets all requirements through approved means, they should be able to become papered and licensed without having to formally attend college. The individual just pays for testing and evaluation. Having said that, there would be very very few people that fall into this category.
It’s not just acquisition on knowledge, but also the application that is important. In self-study, you won’t have ways to test your application of knowledge. You need labs and simulations of problems created by a professor who will also assess your application of knowledge. These assessments need to happen formatively and frequently at different stages of learning.
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