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Old 08-17-2020, 01:13 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
20,301 posts, read 25,398,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
There's a book that makes the case that college education isn't so much about learning, but intelligence, conformity and conscientiousness.
I would disagree with conformity, and substitute that with tolerance.

MANY types of learning take place in college.
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Old 08-17-2020, 01:18 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
20,301 posts, read 25,398,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya Stark View Post
Yes it has swung too far. My cousin always avoided school, got his GED, went to college by correspondence in the military... and it one of the smartest people I know. And has good jobs now without a big school degree.

He had more time to explore things naturally and I think the ultimate result of that was a more focused and intelligent mind.

I also think the curriculum today is an utter waste of time and needs to be revised and condensed
Ohhh...your COUSIN dropped out of school, got a GED and a correspondence degree while in the military.

So THAT must be good for everyone.
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Old 08-17-2020, 04:49 PM
 
5,945 posts, read 1,725,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripkobe248 View Post
Education sometimes seems like an obsession to some people. They spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about their child’s education. The politicians don’t shut up about it. The internet constantly has a conversation going. It’s often a topic for small talk.

Some are in awe of it. Some chase it for money. Some chase it for power.

It’s a biggy in mate selection.

Was the topic of educating the children and importance of it such a big thing say 100+ years ago?

What’s the end goal?

How smart do we as a society want to become?

Could life get BORING once the power of the nternet is basically integrated into our minds?

It’s like the concept of memes....I can barely lift an eyelid to look at one.
Spending fully the first quarter of your life seated in a classroom for 35 hours a week, unpaid or perhaps PAYING to do so, is not always the best use of one's time.

With recent technological and logistical advancements, we have not been too concerned with compressing learning into better, more relevant and concise programs to cast fully-prepared, ready-to-work adults into the world at 18. The Huskins program is a start, and graduating HS with an associate's is great. I think we can do even better and start graduating people with a bachelor's, if they so choose.

We used to have fully capable adults at 18, but have since infantilized 20-somethings and insist they should be relegated to "student" status until they've earned a master's degree and had 3 kids. Student debt is so unbelievable in nature, it should be illegal. It's the only kind of loan you can get without having a job, and the only kind of debt that is not able to be discharged in bankruptcy. If that doesn't raise about a dozen red flags, I've got a bridge for sale.
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Old 08-17-2020, 05:14 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
26,166 posts, read 43,924,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
Spending fully the first quarter of your life seated in a classroom for 35 hours a week, unpaid or perhaps PAYING to do so, is not always the best use of one's time.

With recent technological and logistical advancements, we have not been too concerned with compressing learning into better, more relevant and concise programs to cast fully-prepared, ready-to-work adults into the world at 18. The Huskins program is a start, and graduating HS with an associate's is great. I think we can do even better and start graduating people with a bachelor's, if they so choose.

We used to have fully capable adults at 18, ... Student debt is so unbelievable in nature, it should be illegal. It's the only kind of loan you can get without having a job, and the only kind of debt that is not able to be discharged in bankruptcy. If that doesn't raise about a dozen red flags, I've got a bridge for sale.
Fortunately, our state has offered a FT college program instead of HS since 1993. Worked great for mine and 10,000+ others per yr

(4) other states have similar, but not FREE (Tuition) and often not FT. There was no credit cap in prior yrs so my kids did 16 - 19 cr hrs / term. Currently capped at 12 IIRC. But I believe you can pay for additional credits. Getting AA and a direct transfer to U as Full Jr status takes commitment, but since my kids were paying their own way... they had the incentive.

Getting a BA / BS by 18 is very achievable. I apprenticed my kids in skilled trades starting at age 12, so college would have been a breeze instead of working at a skilled trade + college. (pre age 16). They each built their own homes as a project to master their trades (while in Jr High). They made ~ $80k each on their homes, so no need to fund college, I had also matched 100% of their earnings into Roth since age 12, so they had plenty of dough should they had wanted to spend it on college, Deferred interest loans perked their investor ears, and they made a bundle trading equities during college to easily cover their loans (by about 10x).

There are practically no limits in the USA, to the many viable options for educating our kids. School is a very minor option (if you must).
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Old 08-17-2020, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Metropolis IL
1,714 posts, read 2,067,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Ohhh...your COUSIN dropped out of school, got a GED and a correspondence degree while in the military.

So THAT must be good for everyone.
This isn't the impression I got from the post. I think the message is, that many believe that if one isn't a top student in high school and graduates from a highly ranked university, their chance of success in life is limited. The poster is offering a valid viewpoint contrary to that belief. Nowhere, do they state that everyone should drop out of high school, get a GED and pursue a non-traditional path to a college education.
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Old 08-17-2020, 09:56 PM
 
8,211 posts, read 4,637,665 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS2753 View Post
This isn't the impression I got from the post. I think the message is, that many believe that if one isn't a top student in high school and graduates from a highly ranked university, their chance of success in life is limited. The poster is offering a valid viewpoint contrary to that belief. Nowhere, do they state that everyone should drop out of high school, get a GED and pursue a non-traditional path to a college education.
A very rational response.
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Old 08-21-2020, 10:24 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
85,937 posts, read 79,124,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripkobe248 View Post
Interesting reading. You hear people theorize and refer to this or that as a scam, but what if a lot of what makes up things like education or healthcare really are just a scam. A big scam that perpetuates itself because lots of people are catching the falling money.

Perhaps in our push for all things education and to be #1 — we have taken out some of the natural rhythm out of life. The verve...the gusto...whatever.

Look at some old show like Andy Griffith — Andy wasn’t constantly all over Opies back about education. Did Andy even have a college fund for Opie? Who knows.

In the end, I get this feeling that things have a way of balancing themselves...perhaps that’s why throwing more and more attention and money at something can sometimes end up being counterproductive.
Opie was expected to do his homework. They were in a small town, so it's not like they could get all worked up about getting into a "good" school district. There was one show in town, so the way to make the best of it, was to have the kids take schooling seriously. And back before the country was as highly populated as it is now, when there was a lot less competition for seats in universities, that's all that was needed. (Back in Opie's day, HS students in Berkeley could pretty well take for granted acceptance to UC Berkeley, if they got good grades. No community service or extra-curriculars needed on the application.)

The population has grown tremendously since Opie's day. That's a significant contributing factor to the perceived pressure for academic excellence, school reputation/performance, and all that.

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 08-21-2020 at 10:39 AM..
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Old 08-21-2020, 10:37 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
85,937 posts, read 79,124,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279 View Post
You chose a poor era to ask that question. I don't know what "education" means to many of you (on C-D or here, in "real life") but I can make these observations about what a LACK of education has left us with:


1. People who cannot make change, calculate a tip, or keep track of their bank account without assistance.
2. People who have no understanding whatsoever where their 'retirement' money goes, or if there is any, or what it will amount to later in life, or how much they will need.
3. People who - quite literally - do not know north from south. They could not find their own way home from across town without assistance. They do not know street names, directions, or distances, and are unaware of how the interstate system works.
4. People who do not know how many feet are in a mile, how many inches are in a foot, how many ounces are in a pound, how many pounds are in a kilogram, how many acres are in a square mile and so on...
5. ....cannot do basic multiplication or division in their head.
6. ....given a distance on a sign, and knowing their speed limit, cannot guess how long a journey will take.
7. ....cannot ride a bicycle.
8. ....cannot swim.
9. ....cannot locate their hometown or street or home using google earth (or any sat-view map app)
10. ....do not know how many people live in this world, this country, or this county
11. ....do not know anything about any history, WWII, WW1, Vietnam, Korea, the Civil War or the Revolution. Not dates, not names, not outcomes - NOTHING.
12. ....do not know the VERY basic ideas between how an automobile functions (leads to the many - many - instances of people I've seen trying to jump start a car when it is out of gas).
13. ...cannot differentiate fine art, films, literature, music, or similar, from pre-school drivel.

14. ...cannot cook, and cannot identify fundamental food items, like a potato.
15. ...cannot do basic algebra, so determining how much paint or flooring or cement or grass seed or gasoline you need for a given task is impossible...
16. ...think the earth is flat...
17. ...think we never went to the moon...
18. ...think 5G is a secret weapon...
19. ...think bigfoot and nessie are real...but COVID is not...
20. ...think jets are spraying us with poison.


Have I made my point? Obviously, some of these are priority based. I am not talking about farmers loving food, but not knowing art, or engineers knowing 5G but not knowing food, or my wife not knowing where north is, even though she can type 100 words a minute...nope. I'm talking about people who are ALL 20 OF THESE THINGS.


And this is not a rare bunch. No. It is a common - and increasingly common - bunch.



Now - you can say "education" is not about these things - but it is about ONE thing these all have in common: The desire to LEARN. Which we - more and more - do not have. College MAY not teach you what's in guacamole - but it is SUPPOSED to teach you to ask the question. To have some "care." To develop your innate curiosity about the world around you.


If you have special skills - in sports, arts, science - then it may not matter if you can't use a toaster. But for most folks - the ability to LEARN - the DESIRE to learn - is what college is trying to give you. Or - education in any form.


With that mind - I'd say if anyone thinks education is unimportant today - maybe they fit all 20 of these points.
College is supposed to teach you to ask what's in guacamole?? How do you figure?

In your list, there, you're conflating "upbringing", a type of education that takes place in the home, typically, and formal schooling. Why should the schools be responsible for teaching kids how to cook, as long as they do teach the basics of nutrition? Why should schools be expected to teach kids to ride a bike? Plenty of schools don't require swimming in Phys Ed, because the state they're located in doesn't require it (typically in landlocked states).

If there are people who don't know how many inches are in a foot (etc.), it's not because the schools failed to present them with that information. There may be parental issues involved, relating to valuing education, or there may be issues of absent parents, whether mentally or physically. That's a whole other matter. Same with beliefs the Earth is flat, or that God created everything, and "Darwinism" (evolution) is just an attempt at liberal brainwashing. You have school districts and state governments that support that line in public schooling. That's a political matter.
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Old 08-21-2020, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Arizona
1,564 posts, read 1,339,858 times
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I don't think I've ever met anyone who couldn't identify a potato .

But I'm sure there are high school and/or college students around that think Texas is the capital of New Mexico
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Old 08-21-2020, 12:35 PM
 
2,270 posts, read 516,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater View Post
I don't think I've ever met anyone who couldn't identify a potato .

But I'm sure there are high school and/or college students around that think Texas is the capital of New Mexico
There are grown adults who think New Mexico isn't a part of this country.
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