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Old 08-24-2020, 12:32 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
26,166 posts, read 43,924,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Having actually tested the difference, it's pretty big. ...
In theory I don't see why a reasonably sharp high school student can't do the job. In practice a bachelors really is needed.

...

When we had the requirements at Associates degree, most of them crashed and burned. The bachelor and higher candidates do much better. Far more initiative and self-direction. The lower the education level, the more CONSTANT management they needed from me. All the time. It was worth the moderate wage premium to hire college graduates who don't need their hands held all the time.
I deal with he same thing... hire a true homeschooler or farm kid who has never been allowed to 'sit-on-their-hands' and wait for instruction. They have been responsible for their own education and the family business. Preferably a homeschooler who has been running an IT or data management business for several yrs. It is a very popular gig for many in our homeschool group.

I also hire engineers trained in Europe, they are a significant 'cut-above' / capable / responsible.

In USA, if you have a rigorous screening process you might find a few 'Bachelor level' candidates who have gained a level of responsibility and contribution, but for the most part... USA college is a continuation of High School. Too bad it morphed to that level, but unfortunately that is what the majority of the students do... (a direct path to College from HS, rather than working in a skill / career to determine the best fit for their aptitude, interests, and financial goals and then acquiring the skills and certs to grow into that industry.)

< 25% of USA math and science grads stay in that field more than 5 yrs. A few aspire to better careers and positions, most don't. Many are stuck with college debt for a degree they have no interest in using.
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Old 08-24-2020, 02:52 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
6,834 posts, read 4,515,462 times
Reputation: 11735
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
I deal with he same thing... hire a true homeschooler or farm kid who has never been allowed to 'sit-on-their-hands' and wait for instruction. They have been responsible for their own education and the family business. Preferably a homeschooler who has been running an IT or data management business for several yrs. It is a very popular gig for many in our homeschool group.

I also hire engineers trained in Europe, they are a significant 'cut-above' / capable / responsible.

In USA, if you have a rigorous screening process you might find a few 'Bachelor level' candidates who have gained a level of responsibility and contribution, but for the most part... USA college is a continuation of High School. Too bad it morphed to that level, but unfortunately that is what the majority of the students do... (a direct path to College from HS, rather than working in a skill / career to determine the best fit for their aptitude, interests, and financial goals and then acquiring the skills and certs to grow into that industry.)

< 25% of USA math and science grads stay in that field more than 5 yrs. A few aspire to better careers and positions, most don't. Many are stuck with college debt for a degree they have no interest in using.
Well, only about half of those who start college, finish it. So it's not like high school where the graduation rate is more like 88%.

To some extent I think the difference is simply the maturity gained in the length of time between high school and graduating college, assuming they finished.
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Old 08-25-2020, 01:19 PM
 
17,448 posts, read 9,750,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Wanted to give both y'all + points because this is really central to the discussion on education in the US. It is a national security issue. However I disagree that most K-12 parents are disengaged. Rather I believe, certainly from the ones I know, they want to be engaged. But the school system is so focused on those other few, the actively disengaged, that it's shutting out the very parents who have the most to offer if they were listened to.

We have a school system so focused on equity that it is bring the top down because it can't bring the bottom up. It's a system that would rather have everyone mediocre that acknowledge some are academically better than others. We have no problem acknowledging this in sports but not in academics.
Back in the dark ages, I went to a middle school and high school that segregated the top-10% into accelerated classes. In a socioeconomically mixed town, it did a pretty good job of simulating the education you would receive in a leafy gold plated white collar professional suburb. My classmates went to top schools. There was a Naval Academy grad who was a Marine Brigadier General. A bunch landed in the Ivys. About half came from either upper middle class professional or academia households. The other half were just bright kids with engaged parents. Sadly, that program was killed off as being somehow undemocratic. What I observe is that the upper middle class fled to the private schools and the next generation of professional parents fled to towns that were less diverse. When I look at where the top-10 landed this year, the valedictorian got into Harvard and the next 9 went to so-so schools.

I agree. You need to maximize the potential of the top-10% because they drive the economy. We’re not doing that.
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Old 08-25-2020, 02:35 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
19,983 posts, read 21,568,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripkobe248 View Post
Was the topic of educating the children and importance of it such a big thing say 100+ years ago?

What’s the end goal?
How to suppose that most people will make a good living without a solid educational background?
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Old 08-25-2020, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
301 posts, read 38,904 times
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The USA is one of the few countries where a discussion like this would even take place. In the USA we have always had a strong strain of "know nothing" politics that denigrates education and the educated. I was a smart kid in school and I felt it all along--lots of people from fellow students to parents I met made fun of smart kids and learning. "Education" can include a lot of different types of learning, and even many in this thread seem to agree even if they are denigrating traditional learning in schools and colleges. Having fairly recently watched a couple of my kids graduate from good colleges my opinion is that they and their friends received much better educations than my generation, and they are far more worldly than we were. The Internet is connecting the world in ways we couldn't have imagined when I was in grade school. On the other hand, those that watch 5 hours of Fox News kill a few thousand brain cells every day!
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Old 08-26-2020, 06:49 AM
Status: "insomniac" (set 18 days ago)
 
195 posts, read 37,643 times
Reputation: 189
Education is not talked about or focused on enough. Key to life. Without it most struggle at least I know I have and I wish I could go back in time and life would’ve been so much better.
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Old 08-26-2020, 02:35 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
4,260 posts, read 1,135,651 times
Reputation: 2594
Quote:
Originally Posted by let455_ View Post
Education is not talked about or focused on enough. Key to life. Without it most struggle at least I know I have and I wish I could go back in time and life would’ve been so much better.
I absolutely agree with the bolded; I'm perplexed by how many people in this forum regularly negate (or discourage) an education.

Last edited by CorporateCowboy; 08-26-2020 at 02:56 PM..
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Old 08-26-2020, 02:47 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
33,092 posts, read 60,101,561 times
Reputation: 36567
Quote:
Originally Posted by let455_ View Post
Education is not talked about or focused on enough. Key to life. Without it most struggle at least I know I have and I wish I could go back in time and life would’ve been so much better.
Despite the college graduates working at Starbucks and McDonalds, college graduates still earn more than $200/week more than just high school. That's almost $10,000/year more. A recent Georgetown University study showed that the college graduate earns $1 million more over their lifetime.


It's not an automatic pass to a good career, one must still use their degree, other training and experience, and work their way up to the comfortable middle class salary. I know from my work that the college degree is now required for many jobs that don't really need it, but with so many degrees cranked out every year, employers get plenty of applicants with them. Hard to compete without one.



https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/hi...nd-quarter.htm
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Old 08-26-2020, 09:13 PM
 
5,848 posts, read 7,967,729 times
Reputation: 6040
Education, given the opportunity, is what you make it. It isn't all just an industry in which we are helpless automatons. We tend to take for granted some things we enjoy today because of education. But beyond those things, education can enrich one's life greatly - or not. Depends on what education you pursue and why. It doesn't all have to be something that results in a certificate or degree, either.
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Old 08-26-2020, 09:18 PM
 
21,487 posts, read 5,544,915 times
Reputation: 7596
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripkobe248 View Post
Education sometimes seems like an obsession to some people. They spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about their child’s education. The politicians don’t shut up about it. The internet constantly has a conversation going. It’s often a topic for small talk.

Some are in awe of it. Some chase it for money. Some chase it for power.

It’s a biggy in mate selection.

Was the topic of educating the children and importance of it such a big thing say 100+ years ago?

What’s the end goal?

How smart do we as a society want to become?

Could life get BORING once the power of the nternet is basically integrated into our minds?

It’s like the concept of memes....I can barely lift an eyelid to look at one.
yes
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