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Old 08-16-2020, 06:03 PM
 
651 posts, read 680,474 times
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I don't have any issue with paying parents to educate, but it's not really feasible for most people. I agree that there will probably be quite a few who do better academically and personally outside of the traditional school structure.

"Will we see that once education is streamlined and made as efficient as possible that we don’t need nearly as much staff/teachers?" I think it'll be the opposite, that it will demonstrate the value of close individual attention which would mean more teachers and smaller class size. Don't see any private or charter schools packing their classes because their system is so efficient - quite the opposite, that's why people pay the big bucks so their kids get more attention, not less.

"However, maybe reducing/eliminating the property tax portion for schools for people that don't have kids might be something."

How would that help kids be better educated? How would that help us as a society? It's a public good, like clean drinking water and highways, people that don't have kids still benefit from having future generations educated.

"Reducing taxes on grandparents/retired military/first responders might be a good idea. Just a thought..." I'm all for lowering the tax burden on these groups, but I think education is the wrong place to look. The correlation between education and criminality is pretty clear - two-thirds of those in state prisons didn't graduate high school - yet California spends about $12,000 per annum per pupil and about $75,000 per prisoner. Where is the outcry about waste in that system? It is one of 15 states that spend at least $27,000 more on prisoners than on pupils, and all states spend more per prisoner than per pupil. That is just back asswards.
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Old 08-16-2020, 07:24 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
26,166 posts, read 43,916,783 times
Reputation: 29659
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80sHorrorJunkie View Post
I don't know about your state, but they aren't doing any standardized tests in our districts this year so there will be no way of measuring progress (by their standards). I don't think states would ever allow homeschooled/virtually schooled kids to test bc it would put conventional education into question if the scores were higher.
Just contact your local homeschool group, they will be able to refer you to several excellent standardized tests for your kids... BTDT for 40 + yrs...

Homeschool test scores are usually measurably higher than convention 'averages'. Always have been, it's the nature of the process. You spend time and are 100% responsible for your kid's academics it better show! Our kids were always several grades above the state average, which is pretty common. (nothing special with our kids or their 'unschooling'). Fortunately our state offers FREE FT college instead of HS. (If student can pass a simple college entry exam @ Jr High age so they can immediately register for 100+ level courses).

Conventional schooling in the USA is a tad overrated. (for academics / social good / maturing).

So many OTHER (better) options. Especially in 2020!!!

I have to hire (then train) the USA public schooled output. It is beyond pathetic. Nice that I can also hire from an international pool (Much more qualified and certainly more mature, capable, responsible, innovative, and incented.) USA students transitioning to the workplace just sit on their hands and wait for instruction (as they have done for 12-20 yrs of academic(?) preparation. Sad.

Homeschooled kids are very different in the workplace and socially far excel (with customers, employees, and suppliers). But my homeschool workers dislike being the 'boss' manager of their Public Schooled peers. (I don't blame them!) It's just like they are still in school!(need / expecting babysitters)

Last edited by StealthRabbit; 08-16-2020 at 07:42 PM..
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Old 08-16-2020, 07:37 PM
 
2,565 posts, read 4,182,428 times
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Haha, my kids did NOT do better this past spring. They are young and need the constant supervision over their work. Both my wife and I have demanding, full time jobs, so this created a major strain for our entire family. In addition, they had emotional issues without the social interaction of other kids.

Their after school care opened up for the summer and we put them in there. We found out that the school will be distance learning this year, so we're putting them in the after school care program full time, where they'll dial into the school lessons via Zoom. Seems to be working better so far. We just hope it'll stay open this fall, as cases rise.
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Old 08-16-2020, 07:50 PM
 
289 posts, read 512,112 times
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I homeschooled for over 20 years. Over that time I had been asked by several parents to homeschool their children. Apart from homeschooling a friend's daughter for over a year (health issues) I declined to take responsibility for day to day homeschooling for anyone else's children. There are too many issues at play and NONE of them have to do with the ability of the parent who is doing the homeschooling.

No legit homeschoolers and I mean NO ONE would homeschool a-n-y-o-n-e'-s child solely for money. People begged me and my answer was always the same. "You couldn't pay me enough money to do that." Homeschooling is a HUGE responsibility.

The core belief of homeschooling is that schooling is the primary responsibility of the Parents, not any system. Homeschooling is more than reading, writing, and arithmetic; it's about passing on core spiritual and ethical values. Homeschooling has a faith based foundation. Sure, there are parents who homeschool who are atheists but they are few and far between. Until recently homeschooling was over-represented by Christian families. Nowadays every faith is represented. Secular homeschooling? I've known hundreds of homeschooling families and have proctored countless children sitting for standardized tests but I've never run across any. A major reason that many homeschoolers homeschool is to pass on their faith.

Depending upon the state there can be burdensome record keeping requirements that could discourage any parent from teaching anyone else's children. Legal liability could be another nightmare. Homeschoolers don't teach to the test so if a parent was dissatisfied with their child's progress they could make life hell for the teaching parent.

Many here have commented with concern about the teaching parent's credentials. There are numerous studies going back decades that have proven conclusively that the educational background of the parent had negligible impact upon their ability to teach their children at home. High school drop out parents have produced homeschoolers that went on to university.

Teaching one's own children is natural because Parents know their children better than anyone else and are best suitable to do it. Using other homeschooling parents to teach your children at home defeats the purpose of homeschooling.

Btw, for those for whom such things would make a difference, I was a former educator with post-grad education which is why I can say that credentials do NOT make a teacher. (The most talented teachers I've met did NOT come from a background in education!) I taught both children and adults in a variety of settings for over 30 years as well as a designer of educational curricula and assorted tools. During the highschool years I created a curricula for my own which was as rigorous as any in a brick and mortar school. Four years each of Mathematics, English, Lab Science, Literature, Social Studies & Foreign Language. My daughter had no problem getting into the college of her choice and is an Architect today.

In closing, what we're seeing today is NOT homeschooling but Pandemic schooling. Homeschooling families are doing quite well through this----it's the rest of the former brick & mortar parents and their children who are suffering so badly.
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Old 08-16-2020, 07:51 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
26,166 posts, read 43,916,783 times
Reputation: 29659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudwalker View Post
I don't have any issue with paying parents to educate, but it's not really feasible for most people. I agree that there will probably be quite a few who do better academically and personally outside of the traditional school structure.

"Will we see that once education is streamlined and made as efficient as possible that we don’t need nearly as much staff/teachers?" I think it'll be the opposite, that it will demonstrate the value of close individual attention which would mean more teachers and smaller class size.

...

"However, maybe reducing/eliminating the property tax portion for schools for people that don't have kids might be something."

How would that help kids be better educated? How would that help us as a society? It's a public good, like clean drinking water and highways, people that don't have kids still benefit from having future generations educated.

"Reducing taxes on grandparents/retired military/first responders might be a good idea. Just a thought..." I'm all for lowering the tax burden on these groups, but I think education is the wrong place to look. ...more on prisoners than on pupils, and all states spend more per prisoner than per pupil. ...
I'm all for lower property taxes! (60% of my $40k / yr in property taxes go to schools), and I'm a homeschooler (and 4th generation educator) that has volunteered in schools for over 40 yrs... There is significant room for improving the value and benefit of education at a much lower price point. (as with most services paid by taxes)

Covid is an excellent - once / 100yr opportunity to make a radical and improved (and much needed) change in education of the masses. What IF??? Just imagine the benefit for our students and nation
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Old 08-16-2020, 07:54 PM
 
Location: southern california
59,897 posts, read 78,401,765 times
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A benefit to families over the last 6 months is Watching on zoom what teachers teach
now we know where the kids got the notion it was normal and appropriate to burn, loot and rob other people
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Old 08-16-2020, 09:01 PM
 
Location: interior Alaska
5,395 posts, read 3,869,660 times
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If you pay people to keep their kids home from school, there are a substantial chunk of people who are going to do it just for the money regardless of whether it's what's better for their kids.
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Old 08-17-2020, 11:12 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
12,792 posts, read 9,363,080 times
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Net net you will lose a ton of kids in this mess.

Take it from a dad with 2 kids who did the covid home school thing.
One did awesome. She is also the kid who has 2 letters sent to us from teachers who thanked us as parents and wished they could have her again... You get the picture. Salutatorian of her 8th grade class. Self disciplined as heck.
The other managed around 2.3 GPA with me working 20+ hours a week with him on top of my jobs. My wife never had algebra 2 and is not proficient in algebra 1. Similar situation in science. So I am the only 1 who can help them in all subjects except music and English.
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Old 08-17-2020, 12:17 PM
 
8,513 posts, read 4,829,581 times
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In my state, parents have to be certified to teach at home. They have to apply, and I think take a short course. Something like that.

It works well for some, but let's face it: There are a lot of not too bright parents out there who are not qualified to teach. Or maybe just don't have knowledge or aptitude to teach certain subjects. Elementary school is usu one teacher for all or most subjects, but by about age 12, school subjects are taught by specialists (biology, civics, etc). I wasn't offered algebra until high school, but maybe it's taught to younger kids these days. I don't know.

Also consider that parents are at work during school hours.

A public education is one of the biggest benefits of a democracy. The district, state, and country can dictate the minimum requirements that a citizen should at least have the opportunity to be taught, to be a good citizen and get a basis for post-secondary education and career/job.

I took typing as an extra course in high school. That turned out to be very helpful to me, as a female decades ago. My mother or father would never have been able to teach me that. Or journalism. It's worth it to have professionals teaching subjects. It assures that they meet a standard to be qualified to teach.
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Old 08-17-2020, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
8,861 posts, read 17,424,560 times
Reputation: 10184
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo View Post
it'll never happen.
1. teacher's unions are too powerful
2. you are forgetting that there are many uneducated parents. how do you expect them to educate their children when they can barely read at a high school level?
Early education intervention by trained professionals does seem to make a significant difference for kids in group 2. They're still tracking the original participants in the Perry Preschool Project 50 years later, and the 'soft' benefits of the program for kids from low SES/low educational attainment families now appear to be multigenerational in some cases.

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/23/72603...t-participants

I wonder if some education researchers are currently trying to fund research projects on the impact of the pandemic on schoolkids like that. A good longitudinal data set is expensive to generate so such projects are normally rather scarce. (And why the Perry dataset comes up a lot in education discussions- because the program funders committed to keeping research going over the long haul)
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