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Old 08-21-2020, 06:23 AM
 
1,473 posts, read 864,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LO28SWM View Post
There is NEVER going to be a cure. Just as there is no cure for the flu or for the common cold or coxsackie or any of the other regular viruses we come in contact with.

1200 child die every year at the hands of their caregivers through abuse and neglect. Calls to police and child services dropped 40% at the onset of the quarantine. Do you think those children magically stopped being abused? No they just were never exposed to anyone who called on their behalf. Ya'll arent thinking of the children youre thinking of the adults who dont want to go to work because they might get sick with a virus that has a 99.96 chance of being ok.

If 1200 children die in a system where there are mandatory reporters in their everyday life, how many will die when there are no reporters. Mandatory reporting may be treating the symptom but there is ZERO way to treat the cause because there are no common denominators for abuse except that it happens. NO way to determine its going to happen before it happens. The only option is to help after the fact. And if being a mandatory reporter is to much of a burden you dont deserve to be around children.

Mandatory reporting isnt yet another responsibility we are foisting on teachers. Teachers are often the only people outside of a family who come in contact with a child on a regular basis. They are the only people who will recognize the sign and symptoms. They are the only hope for these children.

But at the end of the day noone is thinking about the thousands of children who will die trapped in their homes with their abusers. Noone cares about the children who are starved, beaten and tortured and the only respite they get and the only meal they get is at school.

Of course the system isnt perfect but even an imperfect system is better than no system at all which is what we have now. Noone is offering any solutions that will actually help, they are just saying but the teachers might get sick.
Exactly, I agree with the above ^^


The American Pediatrics Assn. and countries worldwide understand the importance of kids going to school. Politics has sacrificed our innocent kids. Our teacher's selfishness and dismissal of science and data from other countries who have Covid issues is pushing many undecided people about who to vote much easier decision.



That was the last straw for me because we know children are the least affected by Covid-19 from data in every single country!!!!! after that is it young healthy adults. If the teacher is overweight and prone to sickness, get a healthy & fit sub.


We also know child abuse happens at home and that shapes the millions of kids futures. It's not all rosy, hugs and ice cream for every kid. Now they can't leave the home for a sanctuary? It's torture, abuse and future behavioral issues that can last decades. It's also causing more suicides.
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Old 08-21-2020, 06:32 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
36,418 posts, read 16,940,632 times
Reputation: 26916
Quote:
Originally Posted by LO28SWM View Post
There is NEVER going to be a cure. Just as there is no cure for the flu or for the common cold or coxsackie or any of the other regular viruses we come in contact with.

1200 child die every year at the hands of their caregivers through abuse and neglect. Calls to police and child services dropped 40% at the onset of the quarantine. Do you think those children magically stopped being abused? No they just were never exposed to anyone who called on their behalf. Ya'll arent thinking of the children youre thinking of the adults who dont want to go to work because they might get sick with a virus that has a 99.96 chance of being ok.

If 1200 children die in a system where there are mandatory reporters in their everyday life, how many will die when there are no reporters. Mandatory reporting may be treating the symptom but there is ZERO way to treat the cause because there are no common denominators for abuse except that it happens. NO way to determine its going to happen before it happens. The only option is to help after the fact. And if being a mandatory reporter is to much of a burden you dont deserve to be around children.

Mandatory reporting isnt yet another responsibility we are foisting on teachers. Teachers are often the only people outside of a family who come in contact with a child on a regular basis. They are the only people who will recognize the sign and symptoms. They are the only hope for these children.

But at the end of the day noone is thinking about the thousands of children who will die trapped in their homes with their abusers. Noone cares about the children who are starved, beaten and tortured and the only respite they get and the only meal they get is at school.

Of course the system isnt perfect but even an imperfect system is better than no system at all which is what we have now. Noone is offering any solutions that will actually help, they are just saying but the teachers might get sick.
Children can and do infect others even though they may be asymptomatic. A new study found that kids have a higher viral load in their respiratory tract than hospitalized adults. Over half of the adults in this Country have risk factors, i.e age, obesity chronic health conditions. Even if you want to pretend that all teachers are 25 years old, thin, athletic and healthy most of them have family members who could are a risk of dying if they catch Covid-19. What do you suggest, should teachers be forced to stay in hotel rooms during the school year so that they don't kill the people in their household?

And this mandatory reporting argument is a little silly given that we allow people to homeschool and you can beat the bejesus out of your kid if you homeschool without ever having to worry about mandatory reporters, so rather than trying to use this as a reason to force teachers back into the classroom when it's unsafe you should start a campaign to ban homeschooling?
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Old 08-21-2020, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
36,418 posts, read 16,940,632 times
Reputation: 26916
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankrj View Post
Exactly, I agree with the above ^^
The American Pediatrics Assn. and countries worldwide understand the importance of kids going to school. Politics has sacrificed our innocent kids. Our teacher's selfishness and dismissal of science and data from other countries who have Covid issues is pushing many undecided people about who to vote much easier decision.
That was the last straw for me because we know children are the least affected by Covid-19 from data in every single country!!!!! after that is it young healthy adults. If the teacher is overweight and prone to sickness, get a healthy & fit sub.
We also know child abuse happens at home and that shapes the millions of kids futures. It's not all rosy, hugs and ice cream for every kid. Now they can't leave the home for a sanctuary? It's torture, abuse and future behavioral issues that can last decades. It's also causing more suicides.
Right...because we have millions of health young subs just sitting there waiting for the phone call to go teach in the classroom
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Old 08-21-2020, 06:58 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
7,859 posts, read 11,582,714 times
Reputation: 7638
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
What is this "full pay for doing less than a full job"? My grandson is doing distance learning but his teachers are probably spending more time teaching than they did before.
The school that my children attend is currently offering simultaneous classroom/online instruction, with cameras in classrooms broadcasting to homes.

We chose the online option and I am hearing first hand how much time teachers allocate to disciplining students, shuffling materials around, getting classroom technology to work (for in-class purposes, not always for outside broadcast), moving from one place to another, etc. and how relatively little time they can allocate to actual teaching, making a potentially three/four-hour day a six-hour day (and eight hours including time commuting to and from school).

It is making me think that a solely online school, with professional teachers (not parent-led homeschool), may be more efficient than a traditional brick-and-mortar school.

Of course, even for parents who work at home and can constantly supervise their children, there are serious counter-arguments like socialization, on-campus extra-curricula activities, etc.

But by now it is a feasible option worthy of serious consideration and very high chance that at least some families will pursuit it even after the pandemic peters out, eventually.

As mentioned in another thread in this forum ...

It is helpful to have options, now:

1) public schools;
2) private schools;
3) charter schools;
4) online schools (professional teachers live via video) public, private and charter;
5) home schools (parents and/or groups of parents);
6) other, like hybrid in-class/online simultaneously.

All of the above, all at the same time, do the best possible, and hope for the best.

All the best, then.
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Old 08-21-2020, 08:05 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,310 posts, read 436,807 times
Reputation: 4157
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Children can and do infect others even though they may be asymptomatic. A new study found that kids have a higher viral load in their respiratory tract than hospitalized adults. Over half of the adults in this Country have risk factors, i.e age, obesity chronic health conditions. Even if you want to pretend that all teachers are 25 years old, thin, athletic and healthy most of them have family members who could are a risk of dying if they catch Covid-19. What do you suggest, should teachers be forced to stay in hotel rooms during the school year so that they don't kill the people in their household?

And this mandatory reporting argument is a little silly given that we allow people to homeschool and you can beat the bejesus out of your kid if you homeschool without ever having to worry about mandatory reporters, so rather than trying to use this as a reason to force teachers back into the classroom when it's unsafe you should start a campaign to ban homeschooling?
I never supposed that teachers are 25 athletic and healthy. The average age of a teacher is 42 years old with elementary being slightly younger on average. High schoolers are also significantly less likely to be abused compared to elementary age children. Allowing high schools to be virtual while allowing elementary students to be in person would cut the amount of teachers exposed in half. Additionally its easier to find subs who have early childhood degrees to sub for elementary kids than for credentialed high school teachers.

Based on what I see here and the new reports I see there are teachers unemployed and there is no work to be found but also the argument that there arent any subs.

The chance of death for teachers in their prime even with preexisting conditions if very low. Over 65 it gets dicey but most teachers are not in that category. 60,000 people died in the 2017-2018 flu season, 50,000 of which were over 65. Noone cancelled school then. I realize the amount is less but the point im making is that deadly diseases travel through the older and compromised people at a significantly higher rate than younger or healthier people.

A year off school WILL KILL CHILDREN. Im not proposing everything go back the way it was, but keeping schools open on a rotating partial in class schedule will provide the best benefit to everyone. With less in class instruction the older the children get. Using social distancing and masks and precautions to help protect everyone and not crowding everyone together will greatly reduce the amount of people who would come in contact with someone who is potentially infected.

Somewhere around 5/100,000 teacher aged people die from coronavirus. 2.5/100,000 children die of abuse and neglect.

There are 3.2 million teachers in the US. if EVERY SINGLE ONE got coronavirus, 1664 will die, statistically speaking at the MAX mortality rate including the very elderly, which is about 50/100,000. At the age related rate, 160 total would die if every single teacher was infected at a 5/100,000. 1200 children will die. That is a known piece of information. 1200 AT LEAST. But noone seems to care.

As for homeschooling, people should be able to educate their own children, however there should be oversight in the district they live in just like public school children to ensure they are learning the minimum and are being cared for.
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Old 08-21-2020, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
36,418 posts, read 16,940,632 times
Reputation: 26916
Quote:
Originally Posted by LO28SWM View Post
I never supposed that teachers are 25 athletic and healthy. The average age of a teacher is 42 years old with elementary being slightly younger on average. High schoolers are also significantly less likely to be abused compared to elementary age children. Allowing high schools to be virtual while allowing elementary students to be in person would cut the amount of teachers exposed in half. Additionally its easier to find subs who have early childhood degrees to sub for elementary kids than for credentialed high school teachers.

Based on what I see here and the new reports I see there are teachers unemployed and there is no work to be found but also the argument that there arent any subs.

The chance of death for teachers in their prime even with preexisting conditions if very low. Over 65 it gets dicey but most teachers are not in that category. 60,000 people died in the 2017-2018 flu season, 50,000 of which were over 65. Noone cancelled school then. I realize the amount is less but the point im making is that deadly diseases travel through the older and compromised people at a significantly higher rate than younger or healthier people.

A year off school WILL KILL CHILDREN. Im not proposing everything go back the way it was, but keeping schools open on a rotating partial in class schedule will provide the best benefit to everyone. With less in class instruction the older the children get. Using social distancing and masks and precautions to help protect everyone and not crowding everyone together will greatly reduce the amount of people who would come in contact with someone who is potentially infected.

Somewhere around 5/100,000 teacher aged people die from coronavirus. 2.5/100,000 children die of abuse and neglect.

There are 3.2 million teachers in the US. if EVERY SINGLE ONE got coronavirus, 1664 will die, statistically speaking at the MAX mortality rate including the very elderly, which is about 50/100,000. At the age related rate, 160 total would die if every single teacher was infected at a 5/100,000. 1200 children will die. That is a known piece of information. 1200 AT LEAST. But noone seems to care.

As for homeschooling, people should be able to educate their own children, however there should be oversight in the district they live in just like public school children to ensure they are learning the minimum and are being cared for.
I was very clear in mentioning the danger that would exist if teachers introduced the virus to elderly or immunocompromised family members yet you decided to ignore that and tell me that most teachers are young enough that they don't need to worry.

And as I said before all the hand wringing about teachers not being able to report abuse is just a red herring when we allow 2 million kids to be homeschooled. If you are worried about abuse then you should start a campaign to require regular visits by CPS to homeschooling families.
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Old 08-21-2020, 09:17 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,310 posts, read 436,807 times
Reputation: 4157
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I was very clear in mentioning the danger that would exist if teachers introduced the virus to elderly or immunocompromised family members yet you decided to ignore that and tell me that most teachers are young enough that they don't need to worry.

And as I said before all the hand wringing about teachers not being able to report abuse is just a red herring when we allow 2 million kids to be homeschooled. If you are worried about abuse then you should start a campaign to require regular visits by CPS to homeschooling families.
We simply arent talking about homeschooling right now. We are talking about teachers not wanting to work. Which they were fine with until they were told it was too dangerous. Being a teacher has always meant being exposed to whatever kind of germs the little snot-leakers are sharing that day. Now people are too afraid to leave their house and its not helping anyone.

People seem to forget its possible to care about more than one thing at a time without excluding everything else.

I care about children who are at risk. At risk at school at risk at home at risk in public. I can care about children who are at risk and attend school while also caring about children who are at risk and at home without one being more important than the other.
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Old 08-21-2020, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
36,418 posts, read 16,940,632 times
Reputation: 26916
Quote:
Originally Posted by LO28SWM View Post
We simply arent talking about homeschooling right now. We are talking about teachers not wanting to work. Which they were fine with until they were told it was too dangerous. Being a teacher has always meant being exposed to whatever kind of germs the little snot-leakers are sharing that day. Now people are too afraid to leave their house and its not helping anyone.

People seem to forget its possible to care about more than one thing at a time without excluding everything else.

I care about children who are at risk. At risk at school at risk at home at risk in public. I can care about children who are at risk and attend school while also caring about children who are at risk and at home without one being more important than the other.
You and others are doing a lot of pearl clutching about children dying because they aren't in school where signs of abuse might be reported to Children's Protective Service and I'm saying that's a red herring because if it were an actual issue we would not allow homeschooling.

There are plenty of reasons why our goal should be classroom teaching but the reason you gave is not one of them.

And this is not like teachers being exposed to the common cold or flu and you know it, I'm not going to keep going over the same thing time and time again.
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Old 08-21-2020, 09:27 AM
 
Location: NJ
1,310 posts, read 436,807 times
Reputation: 4157
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
You and others are doing a lot of pearl clutching about children dying because they aren't in school where signs of abuse might be reported to Children's Protective Service and I'm saying that's a red herring because if it were an actual issue we would not allow homeschooling.

There are plenty of reasons why our goal should be classroom teaching but the reason you gave is not one of them.

And this is not like teachers being exposed to the common cold or flu and you know it, I'm not going to keep going over the same thing time and time again.
Like I said noone care about children dying. You in particular. Good to know.
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Old 08-21-2020, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
36,418 posts, read 16,940,632 times
Reputation: 26916
Quote:
Originally Posted by LO28SWM View Post
Like I said noone care about children dying. You in particular. Good to know.
this is getting too silly for me, but have a good day, ok?
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