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Old 09-23-2020, 05:58 PM
1,610 posts, read 484,481 times
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Originally Posted by cestx View Post
As for the literature curriculum, I tried to pick, off the top of my head, the authors, who are the most important today. The list reflects my opinion of what should be taught at school, but is unbiased otherwise. I think that it is equally applicable to the US, China or Nigeria. There is a single Russian author in my list: Zamyatin. I am not a literature expert, but Mark Twain, from my point of view, it purely entertaining reading, which would not fit my list. Moreover, note that the list is partial and I provided it only to convey the idea of what kind of teaching I want. I expect much more to be taught during the literature classes. Whether Mark Twain can be omitted from the curriculum at all, I do not know, but I would not object this. I myself had a great pleasure to read him at home and not at school.
Zamyatin is it? Dostoyevsky is not a World Classic? Pshaw.
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:05 PM
Location: Kansas City North
4,826 posts, read 8,240,919 times
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Originally Posted by HowardWow1997 View Post
What about Non-Public Schools? Like this one Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
My wife and I are often not at home (Commander). Here we are looking for an alternative
I know nothing about this school, but I am sure no Catholic school in the U.S. is going to teach that God does not exist.

Last edited by Yac; Today at 12:29 AM..
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:48 PM
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No school in the US is going to teach that God does not exist. I'm not sure you're going to find any school in the free world that teaches this. The best you're going to get, is that virtually all non-religious schools just won't even mention God. The curriculum that you are seeking doesn't dovetail exactly with any current day school curriculum, but I can tell you that the best public educations available in the US can be obtained at many private prep schools (just about every major metropolitan area will have a few, in addition to quite a few boarding schools that are like small liberal arts colleges, located in rural areas), and also at certain public schools where admission is by competitive exam (NYC's Bronx Science and Stuyvesant, Boston's Boston Latin are just a few).

For the private ones, you will pay the equivalent of a college education, for high school. For the public ones, you will have to have a residence within that city's borders. For both, your child will need extensive preparation to achieve a high score on a standardized test to get in.

For elementary school, virtually ALL public schools, and most private schools, are pretty much worthless for very bright kids. Bright kids who learn quickly spend their time bored to tears in most K-8 schools. If your kids are quite a bit brighter than average, try to find a public school which has a true, self-contained gifted program that they can test into - I'm not talking about what most of them have, which is a minor pull-out enrichment program for bright kids. I'm talking about a self-contained program for those who test very high - a very few school districts in the country still have these. Otherwise, there are some private K-8 schools for very bright kids. There was one near us, and our oldest was right for it, but it was tiny. His grade would have consisted of 4 boys, all very bright, all working at their own level and pace, with one teacher, who functioned like a governess, teaching each one individually, while the others did schoolwork. It was the only school that was the right fit for him, but it was too small an environment, socially.

Another option is a dual language program. Some public schools offer these. The kids learn two days a week in English, two days a week in the foreign language, and the middle day they learn in their own language (half the kids are native speakers of the other language). The easiest programs to find are Spanish/English, but the most desired ones are Mandarin/English. If your kids are very young now, try to get them into an immersion nursery program in the target language to prepare them, or hire a full time nanny who is a native speaker of the target language, and is educated.

No matter how you do this, it is very likely that your children will wind up pushed, unhappy, and socially isolated from their peers. Your best bet is to choose a town with excellent public schools, maybe a dual language program, and let them proceed through the standard education offered by the town, with your encouragement and support, but not too much pressure. They won't get what you are demanding, but they'll be happier, better-adjusted human beings, and they can fill in the gaps outside of school, with your support and encouragement, and in college.
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Old 09-24-2020, 05:05 AM
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For bright students, cyber schools are the best fit. There is more curriculum available and there are potential options for independent learning if the family supports the school and as long as the student does his/her work with good grades and no behavior problems. Kind of goes without saying, but can't stress it enough.
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Old 09-24-2020, 05:26 PM
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I tried to sketch several criteria, which explain what I mean by "a high quality secondary education". Here they are:

1. Education should be conducted in English. That said, whenever appropriate, the teacher must be free, and encouraged, to use the most suitable language. Definitely, the pupils must master at least 2 languages, including their native. The more the better, but the framework language should be English.
This might be possible depending on the country you are in

2. The school must clearly communicate the undeniable fact:
god(s) does not exist.
No school I know of will teach this though certainly some will not communicate anything about god.

3. The school should not have any kind of a dress code or a uniform, no corporal punishment. It should not spy on the pupils, monitor their online activity and alike.
Most private schools have uniforms or dress codes. I don’t think most spy on the kids or their online activity though.

4. Now I mention what kind of curriculum I want. This is the core curriculum, which is taught to everyone physically fit.
School should prepare the pupils to read Joyce. World classics, such as Kafka, Camus, de Coster, Capek, Zamyatin, Orwell, Nabokov, Woolf, Rowling, Aleksievich and many more, should be read in the language of the original. The graduates should be able to write a poem and a novel of their own.

Some of this is done in some private schools and even some public schools, but there is a lot that you are asking for with average high school students and it is unlikely you will find a school that offers all of it. Most will not expect students to write a novel (a poem perhaps)

Physical education:
Pupils should be taught dancing, both classical and modern, as well as basic techniques of running, swimming, climbing.
This seems reasonable.

Mathematics and physics should be combined into a single course in the early secondary school, but split later after the pupils acquire basic skills of mathematical analysis.
In general, most schools split math and physics for all of high school.

Be able to write a business plan and to do accounting.

Not high school material in general. Some students take accounting in HS, but not all of them.

Law and government:
The graduates should clearly understand how legal systems work, including the British and the continental. They should also know the basics of different branches of law, including criminal, property and corporative law. They should have a clear understanding of how a democratic government works. They should be able to establish governing institutes and efficiently govern a settlement.

Not high school material in general

IT skills:
The graduates should be able to make a website, using Linux, html, sql and php. They should be able to make a local network, to write a computer program using C/C++ and VB and to write and launch their own blockchain currency.

Specialized. Not all high school students will be interested in this or able to benefit from it.

Arts and crafts:
The pupils should be taught basics of working with metal and wood, b
both manually and using industrial machines. They should be able to make a radio and a simple computer.

Nice idea but requires specialized instruction and special equipment most high schools do not have.

Can you tell me where I have good chances to find such a school? Is all this taught in American year Any comments about my criteria of a high quality school education are welcome too.
Not taught in any American schools – some is, but much of this is not taught in the general curriculum.

PS: I am new to this forum. I was looking for an educational forum and online search directed me here. If you can tell me a better place to ask or discuss my question, please, do so.

The US curriculum varies widely, but usually includes:

4 years of English - covers classic and period literature, drama, research, and writing
4 year of mathematics – algebra, geometry and trigonometry, perhaps precalculus or calculus depending on how advanced the students are
3 years of science – biology, chemistry and physics, perhaps other sciences, but not necessarily.
3 years of history – World history, American History and an elective history course.
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:19 PM
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In the US, economics is usually taught as part of social studies. It's more theoretical, both micro and macro. It requires some knowledge of basic algebra. Accounting (business math) would be part of the math curriculum, as well as any type of "business" class or business law. That's usually reserved for high school students on one of the lower academic tracks and probably not covered as comprehensively as what you would like.

Your wish list of students studying Kafka, Camus, Zamyatin in original language would require the student to study, French, German, Russian. You left out major forms of literature, such as the short story, poetry, etc. Don't be so dismissive of Twain. He wrote a lot more than Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer. Twain wrote a lot of nonfiction and he was a journalist. H.F. and T.S. is more than just light reading for entertainment. I wonder if you understood it?

I also wonder if this is a Troll post. Do you actually have children? What about studying an instrument, psychology, philosophy, tennis, gymnastics? These subjects are covered in many American high schools. How much time do you expect your child to devote to these subjects on your wish list? What about critical thinking and how to make good decisions? How about learning the skills to be a lifelong independent learner so that they could learn all of that stuff that is on your wish list, if they choose.
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Old 09-26-2020, 08:29 AM
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I want to explain why I would like to send my children to a school, which explicitly states its position on religion. I hope that I will not offend too many people too much. I knew many wonderful individuals who were adherents of various flavors of christianity, islam, buddhism and several sects of various degrees of destructivity. However, the net effect of religion on our civilisation was and continues to be rather negative. Very negative in fact! I am a person who refuses to see any significant correlation between islam and terrorism. The reason is that I see the main damage inflicted by religion, of any kind, in the impaired mental function of billions of people on earth. Religion starts by assuming dubious, unverifiable things, which are sometimes supported by hearing voices and seeing visions. Can one seriously believe in this today? Moreover, many religions are outright extremist, exclusionary and practically all of them erect extra barriers between people. I admit that religion, especially christianity, was an important stage of development of human civilization. Our world could look completely different if there was no person later named Jesus or at least the author who wrote about him. However, now, in the 21st century, it is certainly time to realize that we, humans, have far overgrown all these religions. It is time for unity, collaboration, cooperation. Religion is one of those things which holds us back. Our minds should open to new knowledge and be clear of superstitions and dubious assumptions.

I want my children to go to school, which will prepare them for future. There is no religion in future. School must be clear on this point. Religious tolerance sounds very nice and kind, but it is detrimental to our society. It is tolerance of a fallacy.

I want to give an example, which may or may not illustrate the harm of religion. I knew a person, who was a devoted christian since his early years. He happened to father a transgender child. His child was not accepted in his church, and so he had to switch to another church. The end of the story is that he outlived his child. I do not know enough details to conclude what this story illustrates. The exact role of religion is unclear to me. However, I want to tell you that perhaps the worst crime of all, which is happening on earth, is indoctrination of children by their parents. When a school claims "religious tolerance", it encourages this abuse. It must clearly state that god(s) do not exist. Not because I am an atheist maniac or extremist, but because, first of all, this is a fact, to the best of all knowledge of ours, and school is expected to communicate correct facts about the nature. Second, doing this, the school confirms that it is on the side of the children in their conflict with their delusional parents. This is an ethical choice. It is like saying: "We are against indoctrination and other mental abuse of children."

Please, feel free to criticize.
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Old 09-26-2020, 08:44 AM
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Absolutely! I want much more to be studied in literature classes. My list is for illustrative purposes only. The actual curriculum should me much-much longer. Yes, the classics should be read in the original language and the students should be trained to read them. I have several volums of Twain in the collection of his writings. I think that I read a good deal of it. As a child, I loved doing this at times of illness. I like him a lot, but certainly do not claim to understand. I am not a literature expert and do not pretend to be such. The fact that I do not think that an author must be in a school curriculum, does not mean that the author is not great. There is an enormous number of great authors in the world literature, both modern and deceased. It is infeasible to study them all at school. Twain will be great forever, but he should not stuck to the curriculum and hang there forever just because of this.
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Old 09-26-2020, 08:57 AM
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Your views regarding religion will be transmitted to your child at home. As long as you send your child to a non-religious school, it will be fine. Although do not be surprised if your child rebels in the opposite direction, and seeks out the religion of his forbears, as he tries to find his identity in his teens and early 20s.
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Old 09-26-2020, 09:01 AM
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I did not intend to list *all* classics. My list is just for illustration. It is supposed to suggest the kind of teaching I want. As for Dostoevsky, I would not mind omitting him either.

Here is one thing which people do not understand about my literature list and the curriculum in general:
Yes, I do want the school to teach *relevant* facts and *relevant* authors. Teaching Twain or Dostoevsky just because "they are established classics" is very wrong. It fails my "why"-test.

["why"-test distinguishes artificial intelligence vs non-artificial intelligence:

Whatever you are doing and whatever choice you make, ask yourself *why* you are doing this. If you cannot reasonably explain this, then you are an artificial intelligence.

Example: Why would one spend the precious school years for teaching great, but outdated, classics, when there is plenty of equally great and relevant literature around?]
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