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I work at a small college. One of the departmental deans was a history PhD. Deans make minimum of low six figures here, and I'm sure it is more at big state U's.
You're not going to get a faculty position at a community college without at least an MA, and you're not going to get a faculty position at a four year college or university without a PhD. That's true of any discipline. A BA in history might get you a department receptionist position at a university.
There are fewer than 2K college-level history programs in the U.S.:
Not all of them are going to have an associate faculty position in history open in a given year. And even fewer are going to have a dean's position open -- and I suspect to get a dean's position, you're going to need to have a solid history as a faculty member at other institutions. There are currently 487 history professor positions open on Indeed, 186 museum curator positions, and 3,600 high school history positions. There are around 35,000 folks graduating with degrees in history in a given year, and the ones who graduated in 2020 are all competing for the same jobs in academia.
The vast majority of folks getting liberal arts BAs will *not* get positions in academia, even if they get advanced degrees -- which is why second majors and salable minors are important for kids who want to study history as a major in college.
Why this unending push to get kids to declare a lifetime occupation before they are out of high school, when they have no life experience. Personally I dont think any kid should consider college until they are 25. They will have much better grasp of real working world by then, well unless they continue living in Mommy and Daddy's basement.... Probably should say not until they have at least 5 years of living independently. And its a CRIME to push some kid to take on lifelong non-dischargable debt before they are dry behind the ears. Take on lot debt and you are locked into the rat race for a lifetime. Nobody should be able to assume debt until they are 25 either.
Not to mention the fact, that during the 4 years of undergrad, the student may discover a field that really speaks to him, and decide in senior year, that he wants to go to law school, or may discover architecture halfway through his 4 years, and decide he wants to work in historical landmark preservation, or whatever. You never know what's going to capture a student's interest, when they're exposed to the full breadth of fields a large university offers. (If the student chooses a larger U.)
All Dad's current fretting may turn out happily to have been for nought.
I'm sure he will be glad to find that it was all for naught. I didn't discover what I really wanted to do until I stepped into the job itself, not the major.
Why this unending push to get kids to declare a lifetime occupation before they are out of high school, when they have no life experience. Personally I dont think any kid should consider college until they are 25. They will have much better grasp of real working world by then, well unless they continue living in Mommy and Daddy's basement.... Probably should say not until they have at least 5 years of living independently. And its a CRIME to push some kid to take on lifelong non-dischargable debt before they are dry behind the ears. Take on lot debt and you are locked into the rat race for a lifetime. Nobody should be able to assume debt until they are 25 either.
The no college until 25 thing is a nice thought but it would be freakishly inefficient. As an example my son's educational progression under your plan would be:
Start at 25....4yrs. college + 4 years medical school + 7 years residency + 2 or 3 years fellowship or 3 or 4 years for a Ph.D. He'd literally be in middle 40s or older when done. Instead he began college just after his 16th birthday saving most of a decade relative to your plan.
You're not going to get a faculty position at a community college without at least an MA, and you're not going to get a faculty position at a four year college or university without a PhD. That's true of any discipline. A BA in history might get you a department receptionist position at a university.
There are fewer than 2K college-level history programs in the U.S.:
Not all of them are going to have an associate faculty position in history open in a given year. And even fewer are going to have a dean's position open -- and I suspect to get a dean's position, you're going to need to have a solid history as a faculty member at other institutions. There are currently 487 history professor positions open on Indeed, 186 museum curator positions, and 3,600 high school history positions. There are around 35,000 folks graduating with degrees in history in a given year, and the ones who graduated in 2020 are all competing for the same jobs in academia.
The vast majority of folks getting liberal arts BAs will *not* get positions in academia, even if they get advanced degrees -- which is why second majors and salable minors are important for kids who want to study history as a major in college.
Add to all that history professorships tend to not pay very well relatively.
So much angst over nothing. What's the worst that could happen? He learns a lot of history, becomes an educated citizen, and maybe even a history teacher. Sounds like a pretty good outcome.
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Originally Posted by JONOV
I was never pressured into one field or away from another, on the whole. One thing my Dad did advise was "look at the whole picture." I thought I wanted to be a fishing guide. Then I realized I didn't want fishing to become my job.
Another easy and common example is people that "really like sports" and major in Sports Management or something similar hoping to work for the New York Giants. What they missed is that you would have to compete, very heavily, for a job with the Lansing Lugnuts, for little pay, long hours, and be tasked with selling season ticket packages to the local trucking company, more than doing much that has to do with Baseball.
If you're a talented golfer, you can become a PGA teaching professional. It isn't an inherently bad gig, but there are a lot of them that make very little working crummy hours, and could golf just as often or nearly just as often with another full time job.
The whole "Do what you love" thing never really resonated with me. No one will pay me to do what I love doing. The closest approximations are different enough to take my love of them away.
Interesting contrast. My dad was involved with baseball his entire life. Played and managed in the minors, scouted for the club, then went into baseball and softball industry. He didn't make millions, but put a roof over our heads and food on the table. He was a very much "do what you love" type person and let me choose my own path. I went different from him, but it's been very good to me. I'm not rich in money, but have been a part of some amazing things, and done things that people only imagine, doing what I love. I'm doing the same with my son, letting him pick what he loves, which happens to be history and geography.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99
Why this unending push to get kids to declare a lifetime occupation before they are out of high school, when they have no life experience. Personally I dont think any kid should consider college until they are 25. They will have much better grasp of real working world by then, well unless they continue living in Mommy and Daddy's basement.... Probably should say not until they have at least 5 years of living independently. And its a CRIME to push some kid to take on lifelong non-dischargable debt before they are dry behind the ears. Take on lot debt and you are locked into the rat race for a lifetime. Nobody should be able to assume debt until they are 25 either.
My daughter is 25. She's already got two years working and two promotions in a career she loves. The problem isn't that we force our kids to grow up too soon, but that we try to keep them kids for too long. The real crime would be someone who's a 25 year old teenager who got locked into a dead end job because they didn't grow up in time.
The no college until 25 thing is a nice thought but it would be freakishly inefficient. As an example my son's educational progression under your plan would be:
Start at 25....4yrs. college + 4 years medical school + 7 years residency + 2 or 3 years fellowship or 3 or 4 years for a Ph.D. He'd literally be in middle 40s or older when done. Instead he began college just after his 16th birthday saving most of a decade relative to your plan.
Inefficient for who? And if you are motivated you can advance faster through college than traditional party time pace. The immature kids waste great deal of time drinking and partying. Why should they go big time into debt for that. Hey if you are parent of "Doogie Howser" and the kid is bloody genius at 12, more power to them. Betting they dont get loaded down with mega debt, probably choice of Ivy League schools wanting them offering a full ride.
Why this unending push to get kids to declare a lifetime occupation before they are out of high school, when they have no life experience.
Same reason parents are worried about getting their kids into the "right" preschool so they won't be "left behind". There's a chain of preschool/afterschool centers called "Creme de la Creme"; their slogan is "Early learning centers of excellence".
Quote:
Personally I dont think any kid should consider college until they are 25. They will have much better grasp of real working world by then, well unless they continue living in Mommy and Daddy's basement.... Probably should say not until they have at least 5 years of living independently.
I went to local community college (called junior colleges in those days) for the first two years. Then, I worked for four years and saved money to finish my degree at state university. I was 25 when I finished my BA. Based on my own experience and the realities today, I think it's still a solid plan for a young person to do a couple of years of college while still at home, then get a full-time job to save for the last two years and research what they want to major and minor in, picking up a few extra community college evening courses to fill in any gaps. Or they might decide to go into a trade, or get a certificate at their community college. By the early 20s, they've gotten through the turmoil of adolescence and are in a better place to commit to a career post college.
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