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Old 04-01-2021, 01:13 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
28,760 posts, read 47,912,965 times
Reputation: 34619

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeminoleTom View Post
We all hear how trade careers could be the place to be for some.
One thing I've wondered, there is some benefit in getting a general education, particularly if you were to want to get an AA degree and also do a trade career. Is this reasonable? AA type studies are usually not part of curriculum for trades, correct?

Thoughts?
ANY CC EDU with intent to transfer to 4 yr, should be done under transfer/ matriculation contract. (Assured acceptance of credits @ U BEFORE enrolling in CC)

I would NOT do a "General Studies" program at CC. Very likely a lot of wasted course (Not transferrable).

But... there are many programs and states where 100% of CC work is transferrable to contracted U's. Our state has such a program for kids choosing to completely avoid the HS 'experience'... (good idea for many).

Trade careers... be very careful.

I did CC to meet trade career requirements, BUT I took only transferrable (engineering) courses, which were usually higher level than minimum required for my trade.

Having ALL were a big plus to my career and availed many options. (CC (AAS) and BS, and MS + apprenticeship in skilled trade)

I most appreciated and benefited from my apprenticeship (Eastern European master craftsmen). very difficult, painful (abusive by today's standards) but very effective. Pay was about on par whether in skilled trade or professional trade (I bounced back and forth because I HATE working dayshift!!! (what a waste of daylight and so many 'crybaby' co-workers).

Work results were far more satisfying in trades (accomplish amazing things every day). Office / professional tasks are of little interest or value to me, but I loved the paid travel and freedom to go all over the world 'on-business'... I rarely had to interface with my company colleagues and instead spent time nurturing relationships and technical gain for suppliers / small businesses. That was quite rewarding to build the expertise and profitability of a business so they could pursue much bigger and better fish than my company needed. We were limited to only being 10% of a businesses revenue / sales, but we could often overwhelm them, so it was essential to grow their business to stay in compliance with our strategy. Very good for them and us. My degrees enabled me to be in this role, but my skilled trades provided the background and education to be successful at the task required.

When in doubt... always do both (Skilled and professional)
Quite possible and best to do while in college, as you exit with experience and value and lots of $$$$. (lifetime earnings of high skill can be quite good. )

Skilled work can always pay the bills, while professional 'fluff' may not be needed / paid for.

Problem... Skilled often means YOU doing the WORK... Carry hefty work / wage replacement insurance, as you can be toast (or disabled) tomorrow. My dad became disabled at age 49, but a good friend at age 19 (and still very much alive as a quad 50+ yrs later).
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Old 04-01-2021, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Directly over the center of the earth
1,076 posts, read 384,126 times
Reputation: 2810
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
If I was going into a trade, I would get an AA in business. Accounting/bookkeeping and business writing for proposals would be good to know.
Bingo ! Then you'll have a better idea of how to run a business. Get a couple years experience and start your own shop.
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Old 04-01-2021, 03:18 PM
 
11,250 posts, read 6,337,103 times
Reputation: 31897
Well, it's possible that university education you scorn would have taught you the difference between mean and variance, and also might have taught you that the fact that one welder makes a lot of money has little or nothing to do with the average earnings of welders as a whole.
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Old 04-01-2021, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
601 posts, read 221,935 times
Reputation: 1808
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
You may be smart but are all wet about welder pay relative to college graduate pay.

US average welder pay is ~$19hr. or about $40,000yr.

Average recent college graduate pay is ~$50,000 yr.

Most US welders work for small businesses with fewer than 20 employees so they frequently don't have employer paid health insurance or 401ks. Most college graduates work for larger employers who general provide better benefits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
ANY CC EDU with intent to transfer to 4 yr, should be done under transfer/ matriculation contract. (Assured acceptance of credits @ U BEFORE enrolling in CC)

I would NOT do a "General Studies" program at CC. Very likely a lot of wasted course (Not transferrable).

But... there are many programs and states where 100% of CC work is transferrable to contracted U's. Our state has such a program for kids choosing to completely avoid the HS 'experience'... (good idea for many).

Trade careers... be very careful.

I did CC to meet trade career requirements, BUT I took only transferrable (engineering) courses, which were usually higher level than minimum required for my trade.

Having ALL were a big plus to my career and availed many options. (CC (AAS) and BS, and MS + apprenticeship in skilled trade)

I most appreciated and benefited from my apprenticeship (Eastern European master craftsmen). very difficult, painful (abusive by today's standards) but very effective. Pay was about on par whether in skilled trade or professional trade (I bounced back and forth because I HATE working dayshift!!! (what a waste of daylight and so many 'crybaby' co-workers).

Work results were far more satisfying in trades (accomplish amazing things every day). Office / professional tasks are of little interest or value to me, but I loved the paid travel and freedom to go all over the world 'on-business'... I rarely had to interface with my company colleagues and instead spent time nurturing relationships and technical gain for suppliers / small businesses. That was quite rewarding to build the expertise and profitability of a business so they could pursue much bigger and better fish than my company needed. We were limited to only being 10% of a businesses revenue / sales, but we could often overwhelm them, so it was essential to grow their business to stay in compliance with our strategy. Very good for them and us. My degrees enabled me to be in this role, but my skilled trades provided the background and education to be successful at the task required.

When in doubt... always do both (Skilled and professional)
Quite possible and best to do while in college, as you exit with experience and value and lots of $$$$. (lifetime earnings of high skill can be quite good. )

Skilled work can always pay the bills, while professional 'fluff' may not be needed / paid for.

Problem... Skilled often means YOU doing the WORK... Carry hefty work / wage replacement insurance, as you can be toast (or disabled) tomorrow. My dad became disabled at age 49, but a good friend at age 19 (and still very much alive as a quad 50+ yrs later).

Excellent perspective on trade/professional choices and opportunities. I have friends and relatives in the building trades, and most were physically struggling to do their jobs by age 50. There aren't many 65 year old plumbers or roofers unless they're running their own businesses.


New York also has agreements between its CCs and 4 year colleges and universities, both private and public, that guarantee acceptance and fully transferable courses with minimum grades. Moreover, at the local CC in my county, students who are county residents and graduate in the top 10% of their county HS classes get free tuition.
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Old 04-01-2021, 06:20 PM
 
13,332 posts, read 15,220,847 times
Reputation: 17910
I was a licensed electrician with a degree in Mechanical Engineering. It's opened many doors for me.
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Old 04-03-2021, 07:51 AM
Status: "Globalist's empire has obviously failed." (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
19,722 posts, read 20,387,678 times
Reputation: 16936
A lot of trades-people are pretty dang sharp.

Target your education.

A good trade-school will have all the education, in things you need in your field....math, science, etc, rolled-up in their certificate/degree curriculum.
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Old 04-03-2021, 11:18 AM
 
3,413 posts, read 1,516,653 times
Reputation: 7766
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
A lot of trades-people are pretty dang sharp.
100% agree.

My appliance repairman owns his own business. He can fix anything. Because he is nice guy with a great reputation, I'm sure he'll make a substantial amount of money when he sells his business in retirement.

My car mechanic has four bays employing over a half dozen guys. He can't quote Jane Austen, but he sure knows more than me when it comes to cars, bookkeeping and managing personnel.

The idea that everyone has to be cut from the same cloth and attend college isn't true.
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Old 04-03-2021, 11:35 AM
 
13,271 posts, read 11,267,079 times
Reputation: 35073
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
I only lasted one year in college yet I am smarter and better informed (I dare say) than most people who have a 4 year college degree or better.
If you were as smart and informed as you claim to be, you wouldn't make such a statement. I'll play along. Please quantify your statement.
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Old 04-03-2021, 12:32 PM
 
3,995 posts, read 1,955,038 times
Reputation: 8318
By general education do you mean graduating high school? I don't know if most kids go to college. Maybe in your own social class they do. A good basis is graduating Grade 12 with great grades.

Trades put you in a position to be able to specialize. Your expertise helps you get a job fairly easily no matter where you live. There is a universal need for your services in any community. You can build a good reputation and succeed.

Possibly one of the problems with going to college is a student does not know what they want to work at and so don't have a direct practical goal to gear their classes to. A bachelors degree is much to general and doesn't seem to have any clout. So career counselling by professionals is needed.
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Old 04-03-2021, 09:09 PM
 
3,413 posts, read 1,516,653 times
Reputation: 7766
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
If you were as smart and informed as you claim to be, you wouldn't make such a statement. I'll play along. Please quantify your statement.
I think college is a fine stating point for education. However, I don't think it's the end all.

One of my kids majored in English Literature. She got a solid foundation in her major. While she learned and read a great deal of English Literature in college, there are always new authors and books to discover. For instance, she never read translated works literature. After college, she began reading Marcel Proust's books.

My husband taught himself Latin - he knew Italian so it was easier than starting from scratch. He's always reading history books.

I've taken a handful of gardening/botany courses, but I am self taught in environmental sciences.

What college is good for is learning analyst and criticism of literal or history. There are plenty of books on covering these subject, but you have to know to look for them.

Some people waste four years at college without learning much and someone studying alone can be educated
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