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Old 04-08-2021, 12:25 PM
 
Location: In a George Strait Song
9,545 posts, read 7,002,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mingna View Post
Who cares what others think, especially total strangers or even casual acquaintances. Are we all to be perpetually trapped middle schoolers?

If you have the desire and the skills to support it, choose the route best suited for you. Be true to yourself, and you will more likely than not find what it is you’re looking for in life. It may not be apparent at first, but will bring you closer than not. Travel the road best suited for you.

And true self-confidence and self-respect are some of nature’s most potent aphrodisiac.
I really needed to read this today.
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Old 04-08-2021, 12:57 PM
 
16,979 posts, read 21,613,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsvicky View Post
So few work in it because so few know how to or brainwashed into believing it would be beneath them to work in a trade. Back in the day people were taught trades in School . But, then those classes were removed and everyone was told you had to go to College to make good money. Meanwhile the people who continued to go into trades and have their own businesses are the ones making the money.

^^^^^^This is spot on!

I have seen plenty of kids get their Political Science degree after 5 years of university partying and suddenly they feel they need to start at 60K in an office with a view and 3 weeks paid vacation!
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Old 04-08-2021, 01:09 PM
 
16,979 posts, read 21,613,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
I think, that at the heart of it, is that parents want the best for their kids. Doctor, lawyer, CEO, Engineer, CPA, Etc...

Rather than the one installing a furnace, they want them to be the one's working as an engineer designing it. Rather than welding the trusses on a bridge, they want them to be the one that designed a safe piece of infrastructure.

We, as Americans, aren't very good at telling/recognizing that "you aren't CEO/MD material." Or, "I understand that you want to be an astronaut, but the fact is that you have an IEP for math, an it's not likely to happen."
But come on, if the kid isn't good in school lets leave those Dr/Lawyer/Engineer fantasies for the smart kids.

I will say, kids get overzealous mom/dad expectations and then get influenced by youtubers showing their fancy cars/"look I bought another mansion" type clips that make them think that is the norm.

I know a great kid that comes from an immigrant family full of doctors. Kid is smart, but likely not interested enough in becoming a doctor nor inclined enough to do the school work required. Dad is pushing medical school and the kid will likely finish with a bachelors degree and not actually get into a medical school. That's fine, kid will do ok but the dad will have to face the reality the doctor in the family ends with himself.
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,002 posts, read 7,139,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
White collar professionals are generally polite society. They are not going to verbally put down blue collar workers because doing that is crass.

However, that doesn't mean that they will necessarily want their children to pursue those paths.
I wouldn't be against my children doing it.

But the truth is that all things being equal - a white collar professional makes more money than a plumber, with better benefits which include less wear and tear on the body. With many white collar jobs you can work until you're 70 or 80. With many blue collar trades, your body is shot by 50ish.

Median plumber salary is about $55k. MEDIAN. Many white collar jobs approach that to start.

So I would encourage my kids to pursue the most practical career path that accentuates their strengths. Most of those are the college path. But not all.
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Old 04-08-2021, 03:02 PM
 
12,098 posts, read 16,975,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
^^^^^^This is spot on!

I have seen plenty of kids get their Political Science degree after 5 years of university partying and suddenly they feel they need to start at 60K in an office with a view and 3 weeks paid vacation!
And a lot of them get it too!
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Old 04-08-2021, 03:10 PM
 
12,098 posts, read 16,975,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
I wouldn't be against my children doing it.

But the truth is that all things being equal - a white collar professional makes more money than a plumber, with better benefits which include less wear and tear on the body. With many white collar jobs you can work until you're 70 or 80. With many blue collar trades, your body is shot by 50ish.

Median plumber salary is about $55k. MEDIAN. Many white collar jobs approach that to start.

So I would encourage my kids to pursue the most practical career path that accentuates their strengths. Most of those are the college path. But not all.
The wear/tear thing is true, but that's assuming you do plumbing/carpentry/masonry for 25-30 years.

I'll be honest, nobody should have to do the same thing for 25-30 years no matter what it is.

People who want to work and contribute to society should be able to do so and get paid for it, it shouldn't have to be so difficult.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:32 PM
 
31,576 posts, read 26,419,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
But come on, if the kid isn't good in school lets leave those Dr/Lawyer/Engineer fantasies for the smart kids.

I will say, kids get overzealous mom/dad expectations and then get influenced by youtubers showing their fancy cars/"look I bought another mansion" type clips that make them think that is the norm.

I know a great kid that comes from an immigrant family full of doctors. Kid is smart, but likely not interested enough in becoming a doctor nor inclined enough to do the school work required. Dad is pushing medical school and the kid will likely finish with a bachelors degree and not actually get into a medical school. That's fine, kid will do ok but the dad will have to face the reality the doctor in the family ends with himself.
Here's the deal with medicine and perhaps nursing along with some other professions including law.

People push themselves and or are pushed by others to persue their *dream*, even if this means going to some lower tier school and or have suspect grades and so forth. When they graduate even after passing licensing exams no one will touch them. So they end up working at lower rungs of said profession if they can find anything at all.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/h...y-doctors.html

Young people watch programs like L.A. Law, or Boston Legal and believe getting a law degree and being admitted to bar is key to some sort of high end lifestyle.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:38 PM
 
28,559 posts, read 18,560,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I don't disagree, but I think the education trend was more pushing business rather than being pulled along. In many places business began to add college as a requirement because high school had become so watered down that a high school diploma didn't mean the same as it had in the past. It seems the AA or in some cases, the BA became the new high school diploma, while the BS still carried some weight.
The reason high school curriculums were watered down was because not everyone is cut out for the academic load of a robust college-prep curriculum. Many high schools had eliminated vocational curricula, and they didn't want to fail half or more of every class, so they had to water down the "college prep" curricula.

In reality, however, to this day no more than 35% of high school graduates ever get a bachelor's degree...and that even with watered down bachelor's degrees. Most kids know by the end of the ninth grade whether they want to go on to college.

What that remaining 65% really needed was a robust tech-prep education. Not a vocational education, but a curriculum heavy and vigorous in algebra and plane geometry, technical reading, technical writing, applied sciences (electronics, hydraulics, mechanics, building sciences), small business administration and law, and more algebra and plane geometry. Also more algebra and plane geometry. They they would be graduated with a solid foundation to continue any avenue of more advanced technical training.

As it is, a lot of schools are not graduating students with solid preparation for college, and very few with solid preparation for further technical training.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:40 PM
 
28,559 posts, read 18,560,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
The wear/tear thing is true, but that's assuming you do plumbing/carpentry/masonry for 25-30 years.

I'll be honest, nobody should have to do the same thing for 25-30 years no matter what it is.

People who want to work and contribute to society should be able to do so and get paid for it, it shouldn't have to be so difficult.
Well, they should start out with the goal of owning the business and having younger people doing the heavy work by the 20-year point.
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Old 04-08-2021, 11:43 PM
 
28,559 posts, read 18,560,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron61 View Post
Absolutely agree! For some bizarre reason when people think of “trades” they think of someone just not “good enough” to join the real movers and shakers in college. Give me a break!

I used to work as a Millwright in my younger years. Most people today don’t even know what that is. Using a square and protractor to lay out complex angles of pipe which then had to be welded together, often hundreds of feet in the air takes a tremendous amount of skill and knowledge. Same with installing machinery in a factory. Would a college graduate care to guess how precise the alignment must be when leveling a machine that turns out components with + - 3 microns? Laser levels and trigonometry are the order of the day!

People who like to flaunt their degrees would do well to remember that it took an entire army of highly skilled tradesmen to build their college.
Sometimes I look up at a multistory brick building and consider that there was a guy on a scaffold 'way up there who laid that brick...and we depend on him having done it right.
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