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Old 06-23-2023, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,217 posts, read 23,838,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Hint... it won't come from a very 'comfortable' academia who has led us down this rabbit hole.
It seems to NOT be parents, who have followed the Piped Piper into this trap.

Not convinced that government intervention for career direction is a win. (having lived in Singapore where the Government significantly influences career and academic choice (?) And just spent a few months with EU grads who are none too happy with their government 'skilled trades' tracts.

The answer, I'm afraid... rests with the student (as it always has in USA).

Due Diligence is not a 'subject', but is very important in decision making. (EDU, HC, investment, career, spouse!!!, kids...)

Equip your kids, grandkids, neighbors, and students, the decision(s) is theirs. It can be well informed, we are not lacking for data.
We aren't Singapore.
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Old 06-23-2023, 12:14 PM
 
Location: western NY
6,214 posts, read 2,987,284 times
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The way I see it, the "trades" aren't heavily promoted, because in this day and age, working with your hands isn't glamorous. Therefore, everyone wants to sit behind a computer screen/keyboard, and make their living. They have yet to learn that the computer won't work without electricity or connectivity to the 'net, so without a tradesman to hook them up, they're going nowhere.
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Old 06-23-2023, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,217 posts, read 23,838,485 times
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Thinking back on this whole discussion:

Why exactly should any school heavily promote themselves? If I want to be an electrician or a welder...I should go out and find the best education available for what I want.
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Old 06-23-2023, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,940 posts, read 7,292,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Thinking back on this whole discussion:

Why exactly should any school heavily promote themselves? If I want to be an electrician or a welder...I should go out and find the best education available for what I want.
OK, but why are the rich and powerful people who run our society exclusively promoting college? Why is it only Mike Rowe out there promoting trade school? Why is "tuition money for college" promoted as the best reason to join the military?
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Old 06-23-2023, 02:35 PM
 
28,574 posts, read 18,582,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Thinking back on this whole discussion:

Why exactly should any school heavily promote themselves? If I want to be an electrician or a welder...I should go out and find the best education available for what I want.
You won't want it unless someone tells you about it. You're not going to choose something you don't know about.

Like everything, it's got to be effectively marketed. Government (including public schools), the education industry, and the banks have been heavily marketing a bachelor's degree to the exclusion of anything else for the last 50 years.
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Old 06-23-2023, 02:37 PM
 
28,574 posts, read 18,582,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Why is "tuition money for college" promoted as the best reason to join the military?
And a whole lot of veterans don't even know--it's not advertised--that the GI Bill will also pay for trade school and technical certification testing.

Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 06-23-2023 at 03:40 PM..
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Old 06-23-2023, 03:25 PM
 
12,612 posts, read 8,835,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
You won't want it unless someone tells you about it. You're not going to choose something you don't know about.

Like everything, it's got to be effectively marketed. Government (including public schools), the education industry, and the banks have been heavily marketing a bachelor's degree to the exclusion of anything else for the last 50 years.
When looking at this, I'm not sure government, other than the Education Department, has pushed college that much. Even going back to when I was a kid, it was the education industry, which includes public and private schools, education publishing, and academia in general, that pushed college for everyone. For the past 50 years the job of academia (school and college) has been to prepare students for a job in academia (school and college). It has not been to prepare students for the world of work.

But yes academia has effectively marketed itself for those 50 years. I remember getting book covers even in elementary school that explained the advantages of college. Parents have been drilled from their own days in elementary school that their kids need to go to college. It's taken a couple of generations to drill that in there, but it's there now and hard to even discuss that not every kid is best served by college.
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Old 06-23-2023, 03:39 PM
 
28,574 posts, read 18,582,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
When looking at this, I'm not sure government, other than the Education Department, has pushed college that much. Even going back to when I was a kid, it was the education industry, which includes public and private schools, education publishing, and academia in general, that pushed college for everyone.
Public schools and their faculties are agents of the government...the Supreme Court has said so. They're not the same entity as the education industry, although they are certainly emotionally tied to it.

Quote:
For the past 50 years the job of academia (school and college) has been to prepare students for a job in academia (school and college). It has not been to prepare students for the world of work. But yes academia has effectively marketed itself for those 50 years. I remember getting book covers even in elementary school that explained the advantages of college. Parents have been drilled from their own days in elementary school that their kids need to go to college. It's taken a couple of generations to drill that in there, but it's there now and hard to even discuss that not every kid is best served by college.
Yeah, that's my point. I observed that transition happening while I was in school in the latter 60s into the early 70s. The "No Child Left Behind" program actually penalized schools that had vocational tracks.
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Old 06-23-2023, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,217 posts, read 23,838,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
OK, but why are the rich and powerful people who run our society exclusively promoting college? Why is it only Mike Rowe out there promoting trade school? Why is "tuition money for college" promoted as the best reason to join the military?
It's just people stating their opinion...just as you and I are.
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Old 06-23-2023, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,217 posts, read 23,838,485 times
Reputation: 32595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
You won't want it unless someone tells you about it. You're not going to choose something you don't know about.

Like everything, it's got to be effectively marketed. Government (including public schools), the education industry, and the banks have been heavily marketing a bachelor's degree to the exclusion of anything else for the last 50 years.
Okay...so people who are hiring want a certain qualification, and they state what that qualification or qualifications is/are. They're the people hiring. They get to decide who they want to hire. What is so complex about that?
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