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Old 07-02-2023, 09:40 AM
 
Location: western NY
6,193 posts, read 2,979,354 times
Reputation: 9849

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
First and foremost by 1980's if not bit before liberal progressive democrats began demeaning trade school and vocational training. This was part of their "everyone should go to college" mantra. What they meant by that of course was largely minorities in particular brown/black African American youth but others as well.

Anyone who went to high school or even junior high say before or during 1970's and some cases through 1980's knew deal; there were often two tracks, college prep and vocational.

Nearly all public school systems had at least one "tech" or "vocational" high school that covered all sorts of trades and working careers. Other high schools at least had typing, stenography and other secretarial courses along with various shop classes and other things such as practical nursing.

Idea was when students graduated from such course work they could enter work force and many did.

Will give you that by 1970's or 1980's manufacturing and other employment sectors began to die off in areas of USA leaving less employment for certain stills or trades.

What has happened recently however is thanks to large inflows of illegal aliens into nearly all construction trades wages have gone down. Lots of guys won't get out of bed to take a pi$$ for sort of money being offered. Only real money in trades/construction nowadays is with union and federal or state funding jobs that mandate prevailing wage. You'd be surprised at how much a traffic flag waver makes on such projects.

Other factors? Over course of several economic recessions and other downturns that slowed construction and other work many guys simply left the trades and never returned. Some aged out, others found better work.

Trades for many has always been cyclical work; feast or famine so to speak. When a project is done you move onto next if there is one, if not hunker down until hiring picks up.

In past guys could pick up side work during down times, things like doing plumbing and other jobs for home owners or similar small projects. But now they're competing with some eejit contractor and his merry band of illegal day laborers fresh from local Home Depot or Lowes parking lot.

You can't bid against a guy who isn't paying anything close to prevailing wage but often isn't even paying minimum and his so called "crew" are all off the books. Add to this he will use the cheapest stuff can lay hands upon and that's that. Well people could compete if they looked at more than just final number, but often they don't. They hire guy who brings in lowest bid and take their chances.

Well stated, and let me add one other thing. Many of the factories that left America for other countries, were "self sufficient", in that they had their own "in house" plumbers, electricians, and machinists, that were on staff 100% of the time, in case anything went wrong, causing delays in production. Factories went away, so did those jobs,too.....
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Old 07-02-2023, 09:44 AM
 
28,564 posts, read 18,573,551 times
Reputation: 30812
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfoot4 View Post
Well stated, and let me add one other thing. Many of the factories that left America for other countries, were "self sufficient", in that they had their own "in house" plumbers, electricians, and machinists, that were on staff 100% of the time, in case anything went wrong, causing delays in production. Factories went away, so did those jobs,too.....
And many contracted businesses, small and medium, that supported them.
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Old 07-02-2023, 10:50 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
8,448 posts, read 3,709,924 times
Reputation: 5685
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
No one is saying to promote trade skills to the exclusion of college but to promote them sufficiently such that kids and their parents can make an informed choice rather than just follow the path that's been promoted to them.
There’s a difference between ‘promoting’ trade schools vs. offering a more ‘basic’ educational program in public high-schools across the country (sans foreign language or college-prep classes), as is standard. In other words, why promote a traditional high-school program when it is the ‘default’ anyway (and will meet the requirements for graduation and/or a trade school, if that’s where the student is headed). For that matter, many trade schools will accept a GED certificate. Hence, what is there to promote relative to such, lol?

A student who decides to attend trade school need not do so early on whereas one who wants to (eventually) apply to an academically-competitive (or any) university needs to start planning such in their freshman year. Obviously, more counseling assistance will be necessary relative to the latter.
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Old 07-02-2023, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,178 posts, read 23,817,504 times
Reputation: 32577
I find interesting that a few of our posters are against schools promoting anything....unless it's what they want promoted.
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Old 07-02-2023, 11:36 AM
 
11,409 posts, read 7,725,668 times
Reputation: 21906
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
maybe we should offer a 'practical skills test', just like kindergarten (can you tie your shoes?, if not... repeat)
  • Can you count?
  • Read?
  • Write?
  • Speak in a complete sentence?
  • ...
  • Shop for nutritional value
  • Prepare your own food (no packaged food allowed)
  • Change a tire (if you plan to get a driver's license)

Then we could have upgrades from there...
  • understand Fractions and ratios.
  • Compose and audit a monthly budget.
  • Read a tape measure
  • Determine how to vote (with your brain / studying the candidates. not swayed by media).
Then for the real winners (and minimal expectation)
  • Read and understand a company balance sheet (since most USA workers are managing their retirement funds).
  • Know how to understand contracts (rents and buying homes)


way up the list... Actually know how to do something productive.
No. Parents should teach those skills. If they don’t, YouTube can. We need to stop expecting schools and teachers to educated kids in life skills since they more than have their hands full with reading, writing and arithmetic.
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Old 07-02-2023, 11:40 AM
 
11,409 posts, read 7,725,668 times
Reputation: 21906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The military ASVAB is a "practical skills" test.
Ok. So kids interested in a military career can take it. It shouldn’t be forced on all kids just like SAT isn’t required unless you’re interested in pursuing a college degree.
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Old 07-02-2023, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,178 posts, read 23,817,504 times
Reputation: 32577
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
No. Parents should teach those skills. If they don’t, YouTube can. We need to stop expecting schools and teachers to educated kids in life skills since they more than have their hands full with reading, writing and arithmetic.
Pretty much agree. Especially with YouTube and the web around.
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Old 07-02-2023, 03:09 PM
 
28,564 posts, read 18,573,551 times
Reputation: 30812
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Ok. So kids interested in a military career can take it. It shouldn’t be forced on all kids just like SAT isn’t required unless you’re interested in pursuing a college degree.
You seem to have missed the point.

The ASVAB is not about specific "military" skills at all.

The military contains practically every vocation available in the civilian community: Dental hygienist, plumber, carpenter, HVAC technician, office network technician, electrician, auto mechanic, radiology technician, whatever. The ASVAB is designed to determine ability to receive further vocational training.
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Old 07-02-2023, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Sydney Australia
2,147 posts, read 1,417,883 times
Reputation: 4441
We have new neighbours, a young couple who seem to be early thirties. They have paid $A2 million for this house which is essentially a two bedroom knock down. Apparently she works in admin and he is a carpenter. They should have a lot in common with our other young neighbours, he is a plumber and she is a lawyer.

Trades do not need promoting here, everyone knows a good tradie is set for life.
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Old 07-02-2023, 04:31 PM
 
3,743 posts, read 5,803,223 times
Reputation: 5446
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
maybe we should offer a 'practical skills test', just like kindergarten (can you tie your shoes?, if not... repeat)
  • Can you count?
  • Read?
  • Write?
  • Speak in a complete sentence?
  • ...
  • Shop for nutritional value
  • Prepare your own food (no packaged food allowed)
  • Change a tire (if you plan to get a driver's license)

Then we could have upgrades from there...
  • understand Fractions and ratios.
  • Compose and audit a monthly budget.
  • Read a tape measure
  • Determine how to vote (with your brain / studying the candidates. not swayed by media).
Then for the real winners (and minimal expectation)
  • Read and understand a company balance sheet (since most USA workers are managing their retirement funds).
  • Know how to understand contracts (rents and buying homes)


way up the list... Actually know how to do something productive.
Great post, can't rep you again!
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