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Old 07-02-2023, 05:01 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,587 posts, read 57,536,124 times
Reputation: 45998

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
No. Parents should teach those skills. If they don’t, YouTube can. We need to stop expecting schools and teachers to educated kids in life skills since they more than have their hands full with reading, writing and arithmetic.
Actually... Schools COULD teach this stuff (and once did).

Parents, of course, should be, but we now have a generation who can't, because they never learned practical life skills themselves. Grandparents, neighbors, elderly friends taught and nurtured me. But my country school was key too.

Parents (?)... Nobody home.

Thus, here we are on C-D.

Hopefully, we're also each out changing young lives daily. Opportunities abound.
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Old 07-02-2023, 05:33 PM
 
4,021 posts, read 1,769,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I have a niece who, after 10 years and many thousands of dollars, finally got a bachelors's degree in "General Studies."

Nobody can tell me that wasn't a cynical money grab on the part of the university.
Methinks the problem here is your niece. She either stretched it out for whatever reason, or wasn't smart enough to get 'er done faster....

I can tell you that the University had little or nothing to do with the amount of time spent.
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Old 07-02-2023, 05:46 PM
 
28,574 posts, read 18,582,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody01 View Post
Methinks the problem here is your niece. She either stretched it out for whatever reason, or wasn't smart enough to get 'er done faster....

I can tell you that the University had little or nothing to do with the amount of time spent.
She wasn't smart enough to do it faster. Or to get a degree in anything more rigorous.

When I was in the military, I had a troop who simply didn't have the intellectual capability to do the work my particular specialty required for success. His past supervisors had coddled him along, even though he was failing and would have no real chance of progress.

I had been taught by a mentor, "If you have a troop who is working hard but still failing, it's actually a management failure. He's either been trained poorly or he's been put into the wrong job."

I sat him down, explained the facts of life to him, and offered him an option to cross train into a less challenging specialty or to leave the Air Force on a "general discharge under honorable conditions."

He was the same age as my niece. A university counselor should have been that kind to my niece early on, instead of just taking her money for ten years.
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Old 07-02-2023, 06:05 PM
 
4,021 posts, read 1,769,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
She wasn't smart enough to do it faster. Or to get a degree in anything more rigorous.

When I was in the military, I had a troop who simply didn't have the intellectual capability to do the work my particular specialty required for success. His past supervisors had coddled him along, even though he was failing and would have no real chance of progress.

I had been taught by a mentor, "If you have a troop who is working hard but still failing, it's actually a management failure. He's either been trained poorly or he's been put into the wrong job."

I sat him down, explained the facts of life to him, and offered him an option to cross train into a less challenging specialty or to leave the Air Force on a "general discharge under honorable conditions."

He was the same age as my niece. A university counselor should have been that kind to my niece early on, instead of just taking her money for ten years.
She woulda been better off just skipping college then I guess? Oh well, but I don't think it's the position of the counselor to get rid of someone when that is their dream (or their parent's maybe?). I think it's really on the parents. What in the heck were they doing pushing their not so bright daughter to college?
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Old 07-02-2023, 06:13 PM
 
11,409 posts, read 7,729,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
You seem to have missed the point.

The ASVAB is not about specific "military" skills at all.

The military contains practically every vocation available in the civilian community: Dental hygienist, plumber, carpenter, HVAC technician, office network technician, electrician, auto mechanic, radiology technician, whatever. The ASVAB is designed to determine ability to receive further vocational training.
Ok, then let kids interested in the trades sign up, pay for it and take it on a Saturday just like kids who take the SAT. It’s not something schools should administer.
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Old 07-02-2023, 06:21 PM
 
11,409 posts, read 7,729,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Actually... Schools COULD teach this stuff (and once did).

Parents, of course, should be, but we now have a generation who can't, because they never learned practical life skills themselves. Grandparents, neighbors, elderly friends taught and nurtured me. But my country school was key too.

Parents (?)... Nobody home.

Thus, here we are on C-D.

Hopefully, we're also each out changing young lives daily. Opportunities abound.
So kids should get LESS instruction in math, science etc so the schools can teach kids to sew on a button or change a tire or balance a checkbook? Sorry, but no thanks.

Now if it’s some sort of elective sure, as long as it isn’t required and doesn’t reduce the hours spent teaching core classes.
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Old 07-02-2023, 06:52 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,587 posts, read 57,536,124 times
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Less Instruction? Who's promoting that?

When was the last day you spent in a classroom teaching? (Mine was last month). And still working with students this week (including last evening)

~50% of 'learning time' is wasted on other issues.
There is plenty of 'butt-in-seat' time going to waste.

Do your students exit each day grateful they've taken away a practical learning that will accompany them through life? Hope so, for their sake.
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Old 07-02-2023, 07:01 PM
 
28,574 posts, read 18,582,473 times
Reputation: 30812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody01 View Post
She woulda been better off just skipping college then I guess? Oh well, but I don't think it's the position of the counselor to get rid of someone when that is their dream (or their parent's maybe?).
What are the college counselors being paid for? Just to market the product?

Quote:
I think it's really on the parents. What in the heck were they doing pushing their not so bright daughter to college?
Because all the information being provided by the government is that a bachelor's degree--any bachelor's degree--is necessary for survival.

Who is to question all the "facts?" Even in this thread, there are people who deny that anything less than college should be offered as an option.
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Old 07-02-2023, 07:02 PM
 
28,574 posts, read 18,582,473 times
Reputation: 30812
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Less Instruction? Who's promoting that?

When was the last day you spent in a classroom teaching? (Mine was last month). And still working with students this week (including last evening)

~50% of 'learning time' is wasted on other issues.
There is plenty of 'butt-in-seat' time going to waste.

Do your students exit each day grateful they've taken away a practical learning that will accompany them through life? Hope so, for their sake.
This is true. That's why homeschoolers can keep pace with public schooling with half as many hours spent in tutelage.
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Old 07-02-2023, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,215 posts, read 23,838,485 times
Reputation: 32595
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
So kids should get LESS instruction in math, science etc so the schools can teach kids to sew on a button or change a tire or balance a checkbook? Sorry, but no thanks.

Now if it’s some sort of elective sure, as long as it isn’t required and doesn’t reduce the hours spent teaching core classes.
Agreed
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