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Old 07-02-2023, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,431 posts, read 24,019,968 times
Reputation: 32750

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
...

Because all the information being provided by the government is that a bachelor's degree--any bachelor's degree--is necessary for survival.

Who is to question all the "facts?" Even in this thread, there are people who deny that anything less than college should be offered as an option.
1. Show me/us where the governement is saying that "a bachelor's degree...is necessary for survival". I wanna see where the government is saying that.

2. WHo are the posters -- be specific -- who deny that "anything less than college should be offered as an option".

SHOW US. Post numbers in this thread will be fine.
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Old 07-02-2023, 06:37 PM
 
11,412 posts, read 7,763,909 times
Reputation: 21922
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Less Instruction? Who's promoting that?

When was the last day you spent in a classroom teaching? (Mine was last month). And still working with students this week (including last evening)

~50% of 'learning time' is wasted on other issues.
There is plenty of 'butt-in-seat' time going to waste.

Do your students exit each day grateful they've taken away a practical learning that will accompany them through life? Hope so, for their sake.
My students went away with academic prowess to get them into good colleges, grad schools and excellent jobs they love. I handled the rest of it and lo and behold they have plenty of life skills. Plus they have a passion for learning new things and the ability to do so. And all without shop or home Ec or a basic life skills class. Some kids might want/need to take those classes. Mine would have laughed at the thought.

Last edited by UNC4Me; 07-02-2023 at 07:43 PM..
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Old 07-02-2023, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,431 posts, read 24,019,968 times
Reputation: 32750
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Less Instruction? Who's promoting that?

When was the last day you spent in a classroom teaching? (Mine was last month). And still working with students this week (including last evening)

~50% of 'learning time' is wasted on other issues.
There is plenty of 'butt-in-seat' time going to waste.

Do your students exit each day grateful they've taken away a practical learning that will accompany them through life? Hope so, for their sake.
What do you teach and in what kind of setting?
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Old 07-02-2023, 08:02 PM
 
4,021 posts, read 1,782,687 times
Reputation: 4862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
What are the college counselors being paid for? Just to market the product?



Because all the information being provided by the government is that a bachelor's degree--any bachelor's degree--is necessary for survival.

Who is to question all the "facts?" Even in this thread, there are people who deny that anything less than college should be offered as an option.
None of that matters. Time for people to take some responsibility for their actions. Stop pushing blame on everyone else...
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Old 07-02-2023, 08:21 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,554 posts, read 3,785,886 times
Reputation: 5861
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I find interesting that a few of our posters are against schools promoting anything....unless it's what they want promoted.
Yeah, it should be no surprise schools promote education, as a whole (as opposed to any specific career path or trade).
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Old 07-02-2023, 08:29 PM
 
4,021 posts, read 1,782,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Yeah, it should be no surprise schools promote education
Errrr, they do? All measurable scores dropping like stones and they promote 'education'?
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Old 07-02-2023, 09:06 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,657 posts, read 57,755,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
What do you teach and in what kind of setting?
at the moment, International Finance to international students (post-HS, some post college) private, community college, university and college extension to ESL / immigrants (they are great learners).

But most of my time was spent in grades 5-12 as a technical mentor (As mentioned, my Fortune 50 engineering employer paid us to assist in public schools, but since I was international much of the time I assisted with trade schools in those settings (usually run by the Dutch, English, Germans, or Swiss. No Americans (wonder why)

Of course we homeschooled our own, and co-oped with 300+ others in our small community. They all turned out OK (in spite of their teachers... us)

Teaching is just an other hobby, tho I hold certs, there was no need to work for the bogus administrators / canned USA programs we (USA) call Education.

As often mentioned. The job offers for highly skilled, demanding, and responsible jobs don't flow to the USA applicant. They need to go get a job to prove their talent, as grades / awards mean nothing when there is a job to be done. Even I graduated magna, than is no great accomplishment (as did my homeschooled kids who never darked the door of USA public schools (except 3x / week as tutors).

Ours were also taught skills. They designed and built their own homes during Jr Hi. Because they were in FT college instead of HS. Nothing great about that, except is was FREE in Washington State, and they were yrs ahead of their peers in experience and edu and earnings.

CEO, CFO, COO and Executive Directors at the moment, but nothing great about that either, except they are pouring their life and skills to build a better community for their employees and the community's kids. (And ours are very well rooted in the trades. It's handy and makes it much easier to be an effective manager of techincal employees. You know what the employees are dealing with, and you can equip them to be successful (daily).

Last edited by StealthRabbit; 07-02-2023 at 09:17 PM..
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Old 07-02-2023, 09:18 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,554 posts, read 3,785,886 times
Reputation: 5861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody01 View Post
Errrr, they do? All measurable scores dropping like stones and they promote 'education'?
The point of a high-school is education (and preparing one for what comes beyond, yes). Hence, counselors address college-prep requirements with incoming freshmen. There isn’t anything to consider re: scheduling for basic high-school requirements (as with one who plans to go to trade school); as such, they don’t need to make that decision as a freshman or early on. Hence, again, what is there to promote relative to trade schools? It’s absolutely illogical.
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Old 07-02-2023, 09:35 PM
 
28,619 posts, read 18,668,277 times
Reputation: 30899
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
The point of a high-school is education (and preparing one for what comes beyond, yes). Hence, counselors address college-prep requirements with incoming freshmen. There isn’t anything to consider re: scheduling for basic high-school requirements (as with one who plans to go to trade school); as such, they don’t need to make that decision as a freshman or early on. Hence, again, what is there to promote relative to trade schools? It’s absolutely illogical.
Right now, few schools have tech-prep curriculums. Such a curriculum would have courses such as electronics, hydraulics, mechanical operations, process monitoring and measurement, building science, small business law, technical writing, technical reading, small business economics, and multiple courses of practical algebra and plane geometry.
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Old 07-02-2023, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,431 posts, read 24,019,968 times
Reputation: 32750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Right now, few schools have tech-prep curriculums. Such a curriculum would have courses such as electronics, hydraulics, mechanical operations, process monitoring and measurement, building science, small business law, technical writing, technical reading, small business economics, and multiple courses of practical algebra and plane geometry.
To me, most of those sound like community college level courses.
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