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Old 07-03-2023, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,358 posts, read 23,944,182 times
Reputation: 32637

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Back in the early 90s, the governor of Hawaii compared the state's high school curriculum with the jobs available in the state and announced publicly, "Our high schools are a waste of time for most of our kids, and they know it." Hawaii is not at all unique in that respect.

Sixty percent of kids who know by the end of the 9th grade that they don't want an academic career. I think giving them the option of a curriculum that clearly leads to advanced job training would keep them more involved in succeeding in that curriculum.
We understand your opinion.
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Old 07-03-2023, 03:23 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,639 posts, read 57,683,287 times
Reputation: 46084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Back in the early 90s, the governor of Hawaii compared the state's high school curriculum with the jobs available in the state and announced publicly, "Our high schools are a waste of time for most of our kids, and they know it." Hawaii is not at all unique in that respect.

...
Hawaii is one of the 5 states that use Running Start option for HS. It (college instead of HS) is not FREE in Hawaii. (but a lot of free programs for Hawaiian nationals. )
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Old 07-04-2023, 06:42 AM
 
Location: The Garden State
1,334 posts, read 2,983,974 times
Reputation: 1392
The Trades, here is what is good about them and here is what is bad about them.

The good

When there is work available, you can make a decent living.

It is honest work.

The bad

Depending what trade you are in, work is not always available and you may have to travel and stay away from home for long periods of time. An auto-mechanic might have steady work close to home, but it is different for let's say a Steam Fitter and many other trades.

Dirty work

The noise

Have to use a disgusting portable bathroom.

Working at heights

Working in all kinds of weather.

Working night shift.

The stench

Eating lunch in a sometimes crowded dirty trailer.

Rampant drug abuse. Yes, there is drug use in all lines of work. But in the trades your life could be in danger if they drop something heavy or forget something.

Wear and tear on your body.

Hazardous welding fumes and breathing in all kinds of other harmful chemicals.

Injury's such as stepping on a nail, hammer to finger.

The people you have to work with. I am not just talking about the run of the mill back stabbers. You will be dealing with many lowest common denominator types. Did you ever go into a public bathroom with crude drawings of genitalia and wonder to yourself "who are the people who do this?". I forgot the formula for the tooth to tattoo ratio, but if you are working with a person who has all ten fingers you are doing okay.

Personally, I could have and did put up with the above. But what bothered me the most was having someone else sign my check. That is why I moved on.
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Old 07-04-2023, 01:14 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,639 posts, read 57,683,287 times
Reputation: 46084
Or... Good choice.

It's the most likely route for aging skilled trades worker bees.

Signing paychecks can be worse than getting one that has been signed.

Good idea to break free from each of the above scenarios.

Retire early, retire often.
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Old 07-06-2023, 08:18 AM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,528 posts, read 3,762,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Sixty percent of kids who know by the end of the 9th grade that they don't want an academic career.
What, lol? There are far more options than an ‘academic career’ vs. working in a trade; hence the point, a high-school isn’t a community college or trade school. It is meant to provide an education for what comes next in a student’s life sans the ‘heavy promotion’ of any career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I think giving them the option of a curriculum that clearly leads to advanced job training would keep them more involved in succeeding in that curriculum.
Why offer a different curriculum relative to ‘advanced vocational training’ when program requirements are minimal at community colleges and trade schools anyway; a GED certificate will suffice. If they want to take more difficult classes while in high-school, they can. Perhaps they can take a few electives relative to such; however, a specific program ‘leading to advanced job training’ is absurd as they simply need a general education to pursue such. In fact, the trades are often looked to as an option for those who don’t perform well in school (and not because they have a burning desire as a high-school junior to eventually succeed as a plumber).
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Old 07-06-2023, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,358 posts, read 23,944,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
...

Sixty percent of kids who know by the end of the 9th grade that they don't want an academic career. I think giving them the option of a curriculum that clearly leads to advanced job training would keep them more involved in succeeding in that curriculum.
Can you cite that?
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Old 07-07-2023, 07:19 AM
 
11,411 posts, read 7,750,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
That's what AP courses are...just taught in high school.

But if the equivalent in vocational studies were offered in high school, there would be more kids interested in high school.
So have an elective class called Vocational Studies that introduces various trades to the students. Have folks working in those trades speak to the students. Discuss how to pursue the necessary certifications or apprenticeships. Hand out info on community colleges that offer classes for certification.

That’s all that’s needed and a whole lot more time and information than college counseling gives kids interested in attending college.
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Old 07-07-2023, 08:12 AM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,528 posts, read 3,762,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
That’s all that’s needed and a whole lot more time and information than college counseling gives kids interested in attending college.
It’s as if you’re suggesting those who don’t plan to attend college are neglected. If there is any more time given, it’s relative to the student’s schedule (to ensure they are enrolled in the classes they need to meet certain requirements). There is no such reason to meet with a student who is considering a trade school as entrance requirements are minimal (and they have no interest in school or meeting with a guidance counselor anyway). If they did, they could; it starts with the student.
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Old 07-07-2023, 08:39 AM
 
1,651 posts, read 746,502 times
Reputation: 3987
This thread feels like a debate between two groups of poor working-class people. One decided to go college and wrack up debt that apparently they don’t make enough money to pay back AND those who prefer to go straight to the sweatshop and break their backs making wealthy men even wealthier.

This white collar v. blue collar working class dispute is stupid.
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Old 07-07-2023, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,358 posts, read 23,944,182 times
Reputation: 32637
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
So have an elective class called Vocational Studies that introduces various trades to the students. Have folks working in those trades speak to the students. Discuss how to pursue the necessary certifications or apprenticeships. Hand out info on community colleges that offer classes for certification.

That’s all that’s needed and a whole lot more time and information than college counseling gives kids interested in attending college.
I like it...as long as it's a semester-long elective.
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