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Old 07-13-2023, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,797 posts, read 24,297,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Nobody said that. Strawman.

What we've said is that schools should also offer a curriculum for kids who want to purse advanced technical training.

And we know so-called "general education" doesn't meet either goal. Otherwise, they'd get three solid years of algebra and plane geometry, business mathematics, mechanical and electrical principles, business law, technical reading and writing, and such.
Really...check the title of the thread: see those words "heavily promoted"...that's "pushing"
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Old 07-13-2023, 01:24 PM
 
12,846 posts, read 9,045,657 times
Reputation: 34914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Nobody said that. Strawman.

What we've said is that schools should also offer a curriculum for kids who want to purse advanced technical training.

And we know so-called "general education" doesn't meet either goal. Otherwise, they'd get three solid years of algebra and plane geometry, business mathematics, mechanical and electrical principles, business law, technical reading and writing, and such.
Exactly. Schools, even smaller districts seemed be able to provide both a college prep and a work prep track in the past. Why is it so difficult now? At least Tennessee is starting to promote the TCATs now with dual enrollment in high school/TCAT just like with a CC. Except there are far too few TCATs around the state for kids to realistically attend.
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Old 07-13-2023, 01:54 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,662 posts, read 3,863,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
What we've said is that schools should also offer a curriculum for kids who want to purse advanced technical training.
Community colleges and vocational schools do offer such; even advanced technical training (such as that offered by Tesla) has minimal requirements to enter the program.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
During the first semester of a student's junior year (or should it be second semester of the sophomore year?), each student should take a course called something like "Planning Your Future". The first 9 weeks could be spent as an overview of various career/work paths and how to look into them. The second 9 weeks could be spent on helping students explore more deeply their stated chosen paths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
High school cannot cater to hundreds or even thousands of career choices.
Then why are you suggesting a course relative to (what essentially equates to) career counseling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
What's interesting about this thread is that some posters don't want schools to push college.
High-schools don’t ‘push’ college; they simply (attempt to) provide the student with the necessary curriculum to succeed in their next chapter i.e. college readiness (and it starts as a freshman), when most students don’t have a clue about career choice anyway.
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Old 07-13-2023, 02:16 PM
 
28,666 posts, read 18,779,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Really...check the title of the thread: see those words "heavily promoted"...that's "pushing"
Nothing said "to the exclusion of college."
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Old 07-13-2023, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,797 posts, read 24,297,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Community colleges and vocational schools do offer such; even advanced technical training (such as that offered by Tesla) has minimal requirements to enter the program.





Then why are you suggesting a course relative to (what essentially equates to) career counseling?



High-schools don’t ‘push’ college; they simply (attempt to) provide the student with the necessary curriculum to succeed in their next chapter i.e. college readiness (and it starts as a freshman), when most students don’t have a clue about career choice anyway.
Career counseling can be a survey type course that focuses on how to explore possible careers and what types of post-secondary schooling is available.

I didn't say high schools 'push' college...that's what the other side is saying.

And then in your last paragraph you answer your own question.
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Old 07-13-2023, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,797 posts, read 24,297,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Nothing said "to the exclusion of college."
Where did I say anything remotely about "to the exclusion of college".

Show me where I said that.
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Old 07-13-2023, 05:48 PM
 
Location: SF/Mill Valley
8,662 posts, read 3,863,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Career counseling can be a survey type course that focuses on how to explore possible careers and what types of post-secondary schooling is available.
Why make a course out of something that which is already available by way of guidance counselors and career-assessment testing? It would appear to let counselors off-the-hook, so to speak, while simultaneously ‘dumbing-down’ our high-schools further (particularly when successful completion of a basic high-school education creates the most potential for students to succeed in a trade or advanced certification program anyway).

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
And then in your last paragraph you answer your own question.
The question was for you; I’m not the one touting a ‘career counseling’ course for high-school students which would ‘promote’ the trades in high-school, per the thread. ;-)
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Old 07-13-2023, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Where clams are a pizza topping
524 posts, read 246,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Career counseling can be a survey type course that focuses on how to explore possible careers and what types of post-secondary schooling is available.
My children have/had a course like that in high school each year. Academic/Career Exploration, I think it is called?
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Old 07-13-2023, 11:20 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,705 posts, read 58,031,425 times
Reputation: 46172
No one (in edu) needs to be a career counselor. (They really only know ONE career... theirs, education)
High schools could...just teach (as they were expected to do).

Appropriately educated students would be capable of choosing and succeeding in their appropriate paths, because they would be EDUCATED !

Today's students (since the 1980's) are not educated well enough to graduate HS, much less go to trade school or college (I teach in each, as well as hire HS grads for minor technical roles).

Sure, if JR high taught as they are capable, then HS could expound on educational options that would best prepare students for a choice they should be pursuing BEFORE HS... Some students are late bloomers, or working to support their families, they'll catch the next train, but if they acheived HS grraduation requirements, they will be capable of basic educational requirements for trades, college, or entry jobs, or self employment.

Schools are really the answer here.
They're terrible at what they are supposed to be doing, so why expect them to be perceptive and proactive enough to guide students into careers and college, when they FIRST need to TEACH. Get schools out of the social engineering business, andf focus on their deliverables. Very simple and easy to accomplish. Make their goals ultra clear and specific. And require them to meet those goals. No teaching? no money, no buildings, no students.
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Old 07-13-2023, 11:28 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,705 posts, read 58,031,425 times
Reputation: 46172
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio516 View Post
Should be earlier, like 7th grade.

....

Exactly... as in age 12 - 13 get your act together (as apprentices / indentured servants did 200 yrs ago. )

No crime in career exploration by learning a few trades instead of playing video games and participating in peer pressure.

Create INDIVIDUALS who actually accomplish something with their hands, or are seriously into music, arts, mentoring, volunteering, contributiing to the community.

No sense being a kid forever, there is a time to become accountable and it better be LONG before age 16. (freedoms, driving, independence).

7-9 grade is pretty much the 'breaking point' (away from family / instructional parents).

Put that independence to good use. (realize the consequences of your independence).
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