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Are you talking debt for just bachelors or masters and phd's too? It's my understanding that many people pile graduate debt on top of bachelors degree debt.
Anyway the 100K was just a round number. Take a more common number. Say a young person has 35-40K in debt when they graduate with a bachelors. Interest rates are what about 5% at the moment? Most graduates are not getting jobs upwards of 60K to start right? So even that lower number can by quite a burden for a lot of college grads. Then you have the ones with useless majors. How long will it take them to pay that back? Will they still have this debt when buying a home? Becoming parents?
A college education is most valuable when it does not lead to years of debt slavery IMO.
Students have a variety of income-based repayment programs that are as low as 10% of AGI, which ends up being fairly manageable.
People always focus on so-called useless majors. There are no useless majors, just useless graduates who didn’t do what they needed to do while in school to gain the appropriate experience and connections to get a job after graduating. We see a lot of people come on here saying they can’t find any jobs and the majority of those people are people who did not work at all or get internship/volunteer experience in college.
Are you talking debt for just bachelors or masters and phd's too? It's my understanding that many people pile graduate debt on top of bachelors degree debt.
Anyway the 100K was just a round number. Take a more common number. Say a young person has 35-40K in debt when they graduate with a bachelors. Interest rates are what about 5% at the moment? Most graduates are not getting jobs upwards of 60K to start right? So even that lower number can by quite a burden for a lot of college grads. Then you have the ones with useless majors. How long will it take them to pay that back? Will they still have this debt when buying a home? Becoming parents?
A college education is most valuable when it does not lead to years of debt slavery IMO.
I get that and agree that students should go into college with open eyes and an open mind.
Some round figures from Nerdwallet for '21.........average debt among those who have any debt.
bachelors ~$30,000
grad school ~$71,000
law ~$145,000
MBA ~$66,000
medicine ~$201,000 (this number is pulled up by DOs....most DO schools are very expensive).
dental ~$292,000 yikes
vet. med. ~$183,000 that's the worst of the bunch
Given pay spreads at the medians I'd take a bachelors and $30K of debt or especially an MBA or graduate degree and $66 or $71K of debt over a high school diploma and no debt. Further, given pay metrics I'd take the medical degree and $201K of debt over any other option.
Students have a variety of income-based repayment programs that are as low as 10% of AGI, which ends up being fairly manageable.
People always focus on so-called useless majors. There are no useless majors, just useless graduates who didn’t do what they needed to do while in school to gain the appropriate experience and connections to get a job after graduating. We see a lot of people come on here saying they can’t find any jobs and the majority of those people are people who did not work at all or get internship/volunteer experience in college.
There certainly are useless majors. Gender studies being one of them.
well you are trying to tell a 20-year tradesmen all about trades. Is if I don't know anything and you do that's pretty elitist.
I didn't try to tell you anything about your trade; I don't even know what your trade is, lol. That I chose to pursue a career in corporate law (relative to the competitiveness/intellectual challenge) doesn't have anything to do with you. You're being oversensitive to think it does.
I was actually in the thread to support vocational schools/community college for tradesmen (or tradespeople, whatever).
I didn't try to tell you anything about your trade;
I didn't say you did say anything about my trade. Seems a straw man fallacy for you to post this statement.
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I don't even know what your trade is, lol.
that's because I didn't tell you about it and I don't think you'd understand if I did.
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That I chose to pursue a career in corporate law (relative to the competitiveness/intellectual challenge) doesn't have anything to do with you. You're being oversensitive to think it does.
Nobody cares.
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I was actually in the thread to support vocational schools/community college for tradesmen (or tradespeople, whatever).
The best thing you can do to support the trades is don't say anything about them that other people who know more than you talk about it.
The best thing you can do to support the trades is don't say anything about them that other people who know more than you talk about it.
Actually, I'm not supporting the trades per se; I'm promoting higher education of any sort i.e. vocational schools, community colleges, tech training, and so on for (the majority of) those who pursue a trade. In other words, promote education as a whole to all students rather than four-year universities, specifically.
Actually, I'm not supporting the trades per se; I'm promoting higher education of any sort i.e. vocational schools, community colleges, tech training, and so on for (the majority of) those who pursue a trade. In other words, promote education as a whole to all students rather than four-year universities, specifically.
You should only get School based education if you need it. There's no reason to go into that if you're going into a job that you don't need that sort of thing to do.
IMHO, higher education is great for people with stronger verbal, writing and analytical skills. The trades are great for people with creative and practical problem solving usually involving spatial reasoning. If you take away the financial aspect, there is no right answer for higher education vs. trades.
My sister has a MBA and a big technical job involving computers. I can't even explain what she does, never mind do it.
My ivy league educated husband quotes lines from English novels he read forty years ago. He produces 500 word documents for corporate publication in an hour. I couldn't do that either.
However, neither of them can estimate a distance. Neither can recall or match colors like I can. My sister has iffy interior design skills. Even with hiring a kitchen designer, there is some 'off' about her new kitchen. When it comes to home repairs, husband can just about change a light bulb and a furnace filter.
It's what victimofGM said about problem solving:
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We regularly come across issues we’ve never seen before, equipment we’ve never worked on, and we’re expected to use our mind to make the best judgement call. A malfunctioning heart monitor computer screen was traced to a fluorescent light ballast going bad. A malfunctioning nurse call system traced to a bent pin in one of 16 rooms on the floor. A leak in the ceiling in one room was traced back to several floors above as the leak hit an air duct and traveled down the length of the duct until leaking from a low spot. Loss of a chiller required raising temperature on many units to try to keep the patients and medication rooms cool. The HVAC system is a Frankenstein of different types of systems all interconnected and we have to know how they’re connected and work within the system and understand the software written for each thermostat. One minor change in the software can cause a malfunction.
Not everyone has same talents. A corporate writer/consultant/lawyer don't have the ability to solve mechanical problems involving spatial intelligence. Tradesmen often do. Tradesmen don't always have the same ease of verbal skills corporate writer/consultant/lawyer have.
IMHO, higher education is great for people with stronger verbal, writing and analytical skills. The trades are great for people with creative and practical problem solving usually involving spatial reasoning. If you take away the financial aspect, there is no right answer for higher education vs. trades.
My sister has a MBA and a big technical job involving computers. I can't even explain what she does, never mind do it.
My ivy league educated husband quotes lines from English novels he read forty years ago. He produces 500 word documents for corporate publication in an hour. I couldn't do that either.
However, neither of them can estimate a distance. Neither can recall or match colors like I can. My sister has iffy interior design skills. Even with hiring a kitchen designer, there is some 'off' about her new kitchen. When it comes to home repairs, husband can just about change a light bulb and a furnace filter.
It's what victimofGM said about problem solving:
Not everyone has same talents. A corporate writer/consultant/lawyer don't have the ability to solve mechanical problems involving spatial intelligence. Tradesmen often do. Tradesmen don't always have the same ease of verbal skills corporate writer/consultant/lawyer have.
Mam, with all due respect, I've worked in the energy sector for 36 years. My technical education was acquired in a trade school. A few other courses (including Critical Thinking, Reading & Writing, Creative Writing, Argumentation & Debate, etc.) were obtained via community colleges.
I have 3 technical articles published under my name. Although I am a Power Plant Operator by trade, my existing roles are Site Trainer/Technical Writer. Ninety percent of my workload involves reviewing, correcting, updating, and often writing (from scratch) Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs). SOPs are the instructions Power Plant Operators rely on to start the plant, keep it running, shut it down, and respond to plantwide emergencies.
Some trade persons are indeed able to straddle the intricacies of [tech] writing and mechanical aptitude demands . . . minus the Ivy League education.
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