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In another thread, which is now closed, a poster said:
Quote:
Second, academic scholarships fall into two groups. One type of scholarship is depended on keeping a certain grade point average. What happens is students drop any difficult course because it will lower their grade point average. It the antithesis of what a university is about. The point of universities is to stretch your mind. Students should take difficult courses!
As somebody who had an academic scholarship, that is definitely true. Having to keep a certain GPA requires you to take easy classes and requires you to take easy professors. This is especially the case for general education classes. Those should be an opportunity to expand your horizons, but, unfortunately, I was forced to take easy geneds with easy professors where I learned nothing but got an easy A that didn't interfere with the harder classes in my major. There are a few posters on this forum who look down on me for taking easy professors when I had a choice, but given the stakes involved, I had no real choice. And, as the poster I'm responding to said, if you do try to stretch yourself, you may be forced to drop a class that may lower your GPA.
The other effect is that it forces you to become what teachers and professors and some posters on this forum refer to as a "grade grubber". When a lot of money comes down to keeping a certain GPA, you are forced to fight for the grades that you deserve. Unfortunately, professors dislike students who are focused on grades. If you try to explain that it's due to needing a certain GPA to keep a scholarship, it does not help, since many professors are opposed to academic scholarships.
I had one class where I would score in the 40s on exams (out of 100) but I'd have the highest or second highest grade in the class. This professor refused to tell us whether or not he curved or scaled grades. If he curved or scaled grades, I'd have an A or B on account of having one of the top grades in the class. But if he did not curve or scale grades, I would have flunked, as would have literally everybody in the class. I tried asking him about his grading policy, but he refused to reveal it. I explained that I needed a certain GPA to keep my scholarship, so if he is not going to curve or scale, then I have no choice but to drop the class and try again in the future. He said that my scholarship is not his problem and that I will not get special treatment because of it. I explained that I was absolutely not asking for special treatment, but just wanted a clarification as to his grading policies so that I can make a decision. I decided to stay with his class, got a C+, and kept the scholarship. For what it's worth, the C+ grade made no real sense; if the grades were scaled or curved, it should have been an A or B for having the highest or 2nd highest grades in the class. If the grades were not scaled or curved, I should have gotten an F based on my grades.
Also, there is the possibility of a bait and switch, where a school offers an academic scholarship to a student in a difficult major, and makes it almost impossible to keep that GPA, so the student ends up losing his/her scholarship, and paying full price to remain at a school that would have otherwise not been that student's first choice. Many people felt that my scholarship was a bait and switch but that I overcame the odds: basically, the college gambling and losing. There was a poster a few years ago who had an academic scholarship that required a 4.0, and she lost that scholarship due to a professor's error, and the professor would not correct that error. That definitely sounded like a bait and switch.
I am not saying to never accept an academic scholarship. I'm just saying that no matter what option you choose (academic scholarship, athletic scholarship, loans, ROTC, community college, etc), you have to be aware of the implications. For an academic scholarship, you will have to take easy classes, easy professors, and gain a reputation as a grade grubber, and you still might fall short when there is a required class with a professor who literally does not give A's or even B's.
Do colleges not realize that it may be counterproductive to attach a GPA requirement to an academic scholarship? Or is it a bait and switch tactic?
Do colleges not realize that it may be counterproductive to attach a GPA requirement to an academic scholarship? Or is it a bait and switch tactic?
My elder son did the exact opposite. He jeopardized his full academic scholarship by failing an Art History course that he just didn't like. Yet he also took 400 level Math & CS courses and loved them.
Many college students in private 4-year colleges today get some type of partial scholarship that require a certain GPA be maintained.
There are some students who "game the system" by taking easy courses, I suppose, but there are also students who buy term papers off the internet. I also wonder what type of student who would be so clever in their long-term thinking as to take easy courses to save their scholarship, but so dumb they can't pass college classes. And anyway aren't those students already majoring in basket weaving?
Do colleges not realize that it may be counterproductive to attach a GPA requirement to an academic scholarship? Or is it a bait and switch tactic?
Good on you for completing college while maintaining your scholarship!
No one knows the real cost of college when applying. It's crazy. It's like offering to purchase a car (or anything) without not knowing the price until your offer is accepted.
In my limited understanding, colleges pay a number game to have full enrollment in a freshman class.
When dinosaurs roamed the earth (in my time), students applied to one or two colleges. If a college accepted a student, there was a pretty good 50% chance that student would attend. A college knew for a class of 250 students, they would need to send out (it's a guess) 400 acceptance letters.
Today, students apply to a dozen or even twenty colleges. It's a nightmare for colleges. Calculating the number of acceptances required to fill a freshman class becomes tricky. Obviously, there is a limited amount of scholarships available so:
1) Colleges offer big merit scholarships to their first choice students.
2) Colleges offer smaller merit scholarships to their second choice.
3) Colleges offer GPA scholarships to their third choice.
I told my kids if a college accepted them without any scholarships, the college really didn't want them. It was the same as a rejection letter.
Absolutely, I think it's a bait or switch. Many freshmen dropped out after a good first year with a respectable, not excellent GPA. Other freshmen stay and simply pay the higher costs.
Then again, I attended college before grade inflation was a thing. Back then, 'a gentleman's C' was acceptable in hard classes.
I received a full-tuition scholarship at a private, out-of-state university based on my application which was mostly top grades, top of my class, lots of AP courses.
The scholarship probably did have a GPA requirement to maintain, but I have no clue what it was because it's not in my nature to play softball and hedge my bets. Most students who are overachievers in high school will continue to work hard in college.
College IS expensive, and I'm gonna get my money's worth! I worked my tuchus off and graduated in 3 years, with a biology major, two minors, and the University Honor's program (Advanced courses for the required for everybody classes like theology, philosophy, history, etc.). No grade grubbing, definitely teachers who just did not like me AT ALL, and the only "easy" classes I took were required at that liberal arts school.
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I also wonder what type of student who would be so clever in their long-term thinking as to take easy courses to save their scholarship, but so dumb they can't pass college classes. And anyway aren't those students already majoring in basket weaving?
Huge difference from passing and achieving a B or higher.
I had a friend who was hysterical about a grade. She applied to law schools and needed to maintain her average. She definitely wasn't majoring in basket weaving. She went out on limb to take a photography course. She wasn't very talented. She pleaded with her professor to raise her grade from a C to a B. No such luck.
There are always professors who are known as hard graders. My art history department was known to be harder than the political science or business departments. Art history professors hoarded A's as if it was in short supply and they might run out A's.
As somebody who had an academic scholarship, that is definitely true. Having to keep a certain GPA requires you to take easy classes and requires you to take easy professors. This is especially the case for general education classes. Those should be an opportunity to expand your horizons, but, unfortunately, I was forced to take easy geneds with easy professors where I learned nothing but got an easy A that didn't interfere with the harder classes in my major. There are a few posters on this forum who look down on me for taking easy professors when I had a choice, but given the stakes involved, I had no real choice. And, as the poster I'm responding to said, if you do try to stretch yourself, you may be forced to drop a class that may lower your GPA.
I had to maintain my GPA to maintain my scholarship. While I knew students who would drop/add based on easy/hard professor, that jus wasn't an option for me. Most of my required classes had one professor who taught them so dropping and taking someone else wasn't an option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
The other effect is that it forces you to become what teachers and professors and some posters on this forum refer to as a "grade grubber". When a lot of money comes down to keeping a certain GPA, you are forced to fight for the grades that you deserve. Unfortunately, professors dislike students who are focused on grades. If you try to explain that it's due to needing a certain GPA to keep a scholarship, it does not help, since many professors are opposed to academic scholarships.
?
Never knew a professor to change a grade no matter what. One friend of mine, this guy was like Sheldon brilliant, had one professor stand between him and highest grades in the university. This professor had a policy of "no one is good enough to get an A" and held to it. My friend got a B and nothing he did could get the prof to change his mind. His grades all semester had been A, but the prof gave him a low enough grade on the final to bring his average down to 89.9.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
I had one class where I would score in the 40s on exams (out of 100) but I'd have the highest or second highest grade in the class. This professor refused to tell us whether or not he curved or scaled grades. If he curved or scaled grades, I'd have an A or B on account of having one of the top grades in the class. But if he did not curve or scale grades, I would have flunked, as would have literally everybody in the class. I tried asking him about his grading policy, but he refused to reveal it. I explained that I needed a certain GPA to keep my scholarship, so if he is not going to curve or scale, then I have no choice but to drop the class and try again in the future. He said that my scholarship is not his problem and that I will not get special treatment because of it. I explained that I was absolutely not asking for special treatment, but just wanted a clarification as to his grading policies so that I can make a decision. I decided to stay with his class, got a C+, and kept the scholarship. For what it's worth, the C+ grade made no real sense; if the grades were scaled or curved, it should have been an A or B for having the highest or 2nd highest grades in the class. If the grades were not scaled or curved, I should have gotten an F based on my grades.
That was not only common, but prevalent among my professors. My oldest experienced the same thing. Your scores had no logical relation to the grade. The reason your professor couldn't reveal his grading policy is he didn't have one. What I learned from these professors is they waited until the end of the semester and then gave the top one or two students an A; the next few a B, and the rest a C. Some would give the bottom couple a D. But as you went through the semester you had no idea how well you were doing. When the class average is less than 30, either you aren't teaching very well, or your test doesn't match what was taught.
Another common tactic by students with academic scholarships was, if there was a required class taught by only one professor, and that professor tended to give low grades, was to take the class over the summer at a different college. I never had to resort to that.
I had to maintain my GPA to maintain my scholarship. While I knew students who would drop/add based on easy/hard professor, that jus wasn't an option for me. Most of my required classes had one professor who taught them so dropping and taking someone else wasn't an option.
Never knew a professor to change a grade no matter what. One friend of mine, this guy was like Sheldon brilliant, had one professor stand between him and highest grades in the university. This professor had a policy of "no one is good enough to get an A" and held to it. My friend got a B and nothing he did could get the prof to change his mind. His grades all semester had been A, but the prof gave him a low enough grade on the final to bring his average down to 89.9.
That was not only common, but prevalent among my professors. My oldest experienced the same thing. Your scores had no logical relation to the grade. The reason your professor couldn't reveal his grading policy is he didn't have one. What I learned from these professors is they waited until the end of the semester and then gave the top one or two students an A; the next few a B, and the rest a C. Some would give the bottom couple a D. But as you went through the semester you had no idea how well you were doing. When the class average is less than 30, either you aren't teaching very well, or your test doesn't match what was taught.
Would you say that academic scholarships are well-intentioned and that colleges just don’t realize these flaws? Or would you say that they are a bait and switch tactic?
Would you say that academic scholarships are well-intentioned and that colleges just don’t realize these flaws? Or would you say that they are a bait and switch tactic?
No, I don't look on them as bait and switch. Rather I look at as the academic expectations are, perhaps naïve isn't the right word, but, maybe Ivory Tower disconnected from what really happens.
One of the things when I went to college is there was much less grade inflation. Right or wrong, the expectation was most students would get an average grade. So the professors and academic grading system was set up to give most students average grades. Which also meant "average" fluctuated based on how everyone else was doing. IE, if a particular department or professor tended to give out more A's, there was a tendency to pull them back toward the average by making the next class harder (or easier) to keep everyone more or less in line. No this wasn't an official policy or anything, just the tendency of peer pressure.
The scholarships on the other had typically required above average performance. So as a student you were not only having to put in above average performance, but also overcome the natural tendency of the academic system to pull higher grades downward to keep the group average.
Over the last 20 years or so grade inflation has taken hold, adding an upward push on grades. Which means they have to pull the requirements for scholarships upward too or everyone would be getting one.
Going back to my experience, there were several times where I was in genuine fear of losing my scholarship, including barely avoiding probation. Two of those times were when professors gave D's and nothing I could do could pull them up.
So, what I'm trying to say is those who put the grade criteria on scholarships are being somewhat naïve in believing the grading system actually measures what it purports to measure with the level of accuracy they think it does.
No, I don't look on them as bait and switch. Rather I look at as the academic expectations are, perhaps naïve isn't the right word, but, maybe Ivory Tower disconnected from what really happens.
One of the things when I went to college is there was much less grade inflation. Right or wrong, the expectation was most students would get an average grade. So the professors and academic grading system was set up to give most students average grades. Which also meant "average" fluctuated based on how everyone else was doing. IE, if a particular department or professor tended to give out more A's, there was a tendency to pull them back toward the average by making the next class harder (or easier) to keep everyone more or less in line. No this wasn't an official policy or anything, just the tendency of peer pressure.
The scholarships on the other had typically required above average performance. So as a student you were not only having to put in above average performance, but also overcome the natural tendency of the academic system to pull higher grades downward to keep the group average.
Over the last 20 years or so grade inflation has taken hold, adding an upward push on grades. Which means they have to pull the requirements for scholarships upward too or everyone would be getting one.
Going back to my experience, there were several times where I was in genuine fear of losing my scholarship, including barely avoiding probation. Two of those times were when professors gave D's and nothing I could do could pull them up.
So, what I'm trying to say is those who put the grade criteria on scholarships are being somewhat naïve in believing the grading system actually measures what it purports to measure with the level of accuracy they think it does.
Do you agree that requiring a certain GPA to keep a scholarship conflicts with the idea that students should focus on learning for the sake of learning, snd not for grades? What is a good response for a student with an academic scholarship who is accused of being a grade grubber or focusing too much on grades?
What about that woman who posted a few years ago who had a scholarship that required a perfect 4.0, which she lost due to a professor’s error? Was that a bait and switch, given how hard it is to keep a perfect 4.0 and it will often come down to factors outside the student’s control?
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