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Old 03-30-2022, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Central NJ and PA
5,024 posts, read 2,227,317 times
Reputation: 3914

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What is Collaborative Consultation?

Quote:
What does Collaborative Consultation look like in the general education classroom?
While collaborative consultation can occur outside of the general education classroom in the form of a psychologist providing advice to the general education teacher, another method can be a special education teacher who literally consults multiple teachers in multiple classrooms by helping the students learn without being in the classroom during every lesson.
https://sites.google.com/site/inclus...e-consultation

The link quoted above goes on to list the many (supposed) benefits of the model. I say "supposed" because we (my school district and my children) have been using this model for the last two years, and it is a giant cluster ___.

Do you have experience with this model - as a teacher or a parent? Do you know of any literature that does NOT describe this method of teaching in glowing terms? I have found a complete lack of any negative feedback on this method, which I find strange, given that in speaking to a couple parents in our district they are also very unhappy. But I'm willing to consider that perhaps our district is just implementing this in a terrible way.

Either way, good or bad, I'd love to hear what you have to say, and bonus points for any links to contradictory articles.
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Old 03-31-2022, 04:47 PM
 
7,114 posts, read 3,941,309 times
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My daughter's first grade class was a collaborative classroom. My daughter had trouble handling interruptions during lessons. Students were pulled out of class for individualized special ed, physical therapy, speech therapy, etc. The amount of up and down, in and outs made class loud and disruptive.

Also, she had disruptive students as well. They were nice kids, but they didn't have impulse control.
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Old 04-01-2022, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,119 posts, read 23,785,288 times
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Just a reminder that most of these sped kids in inclusive classrooms will be living in an inclusive society.
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Old 04-01-2022, 01:15 PM
 
7,114 posts, read 3,941,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Just a reminder that most of these sped kids in inclusive classrooms will be living in an inclusive society.
Of course! However, this should be a discussion on the best way to educate children with and without disabilities. If you have a child who can't sit still or keep quiet, should the whole class be disrupted?
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Old 04-02-2022, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,119 posts, read 23,785,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
Of course! However, this should be a discussion on the best way to educate children with and without disabilities. If you have a child who can't sit still or keep quiet, should the whole class be disrupted?
Did I say that?
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Old 04-03-2022, 12:38 AM
 
823 posts, read 1,046,264 times
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My 10th grade son has most of his core classes (English, Geometry, World History, Physics) with a collaborative teacher. I think it's the same as what you're talking about, just haven't heard it called collaborative consultation - regular class with a Special Ed teacher providing support too. He has ADHD (yes, he was the kid in elementary who couldn't sit still) and dyslexia, which was only finally diagnosed last year, despite years of requesting testing (he wasn't tested earlier because he wasn't failing enough to justify it, despite there being clear signs). Last year was his first year with an IEP, but it was all remote learning. This is the first in-person year for him with both the IEP and co/collab-teaching.

Collab teaching has been a life-changer for us. He's a very smart kid but needed much more one-on-one work to help him keep up to speed with his peers. His collab teacher has completely turned around a miserable school experience to one where he feels capable and confident and seen. Still struggles with a few things (literary analysis, fully completing assignments, getting them in on time) but he no longer feels like it's all hopeless anymore and his grades are decent.
I have no idea how the other students or parents view it, but I know the regular teachers like it a lot. He does not leave class, all the support happens in the room. I have not read any articles on the approach, but from my pov, it's an unqualified yes to it being a good thing for our family.

Also, it's a sidenote but given that it has come up, many if not most American elementary schools require a level of sitting still and keeping quiet that is not developmentally appropriate, regardless of the child's disposition or dis/ability. But too frequently, instead of addressing that, we pathologize the behavior of the child as disruptive (which is not to say that there aren't kids who are genuinely disruptive!). Recess is short if it exists at all, playgrounds are frequently bleak, lots of schools no longer have music or art, PE which should be so engaging is too often running laps and lame games dominated by a couple of kids, never any time for free play other than a brief few minutes at lunchtime, there is no or very little movement built in to any lessons...is it any surprise so many kids have trouble paying attention?
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Old 04-03-2022, 08:42 AM
 
12,577 posts, read 8,805,520 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudwalker View Post
Also, it's a sidenote but given that it has come up, many if not most American elementary schools require a level of sitting still and keeping quiet that is not developmentally appropriate, regardless of the child's disposition or dis/ability. But too frequently, instead of addressing that, we pathologize the behavior of the child as disruptive (which is not to say that there aren't kids who are genuinely disruptive!). Recess is short if it exists at all, playgrounds are frequently bleak, lots of schools no longer have music or art, PE which should be so engaging is too often running laps and lame games dominated by a couple of kids, never any time for free play other than a brief few minutes at lunchtime, there is no or very little movement built in to any lessons...is it any surprise so many kids have trouble paying attention?
Interesting that my wife and I were having this same discussion yesterday after watching some puppies at play. When I was a kid we had recess twice a day, plus lunch. Gave plenty of opportunity to get out of the chair and move around and burn off energy. Lord knows the amount of time anyone can pay attention is directly related to how long your butt can sit on that hard chair. Today they have less recess and most of the games we played are forbidden on today's school yards. Little kids learn as much from free play as from formal lessons. Now get those little monsters back in their seats where they belong, and do it in an open classroom building where every noise is heard around the school.
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Old 04-04-2022, 09:08 AM
 
7,114 posts, read 3,941,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Interesting that my wife and I were having this same discussion yesterday after watching some puppies at play. When I was a kid we had recess twice a day, plus lunch. Gave plenty of opportunity to get out of the chair and move around and burn off energy. Lord knows the amount of time anyone can pay attention is directly related to how long your butt can sit on that hard chair. Today they have less recess and most of the games we played are forbidden on today's school yards. Little kids learn as much from free play as from formal lessons. Now get those little monsters back in their seats where they belong, and do it in an open classroom building where every noise is heard around the school.
I agree with more recess before third grade. I also think by starting pre-reading skills and reading lessons before age 6 is not helpful. Sweden doesn't start reading lessons until age 7 and has fewer learning disabilities and other issues. Likewise, abstract math skills are introduced in fifth grade or sooner before a typical child's brain is mature enough.

I know so kids can read before kindergarten. My kids were testing in the 91% percentile in the Iowa Assessments by second grade. Good for them, but there is no harm in waiting until second grade/age 7 so all the kids are up to.

I think working with a collaborative teacher is good as long as two teachers aren't talking at the same time. As an adult, I would have problems concentrating with two people talking in an enclosed space. My daughter was never a math wiz and had extra math help by a spec ed teacher outside of her math class. I think it took the place of an elective course. It worked fine.
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Old 04-10-2022, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Central NJ and PA
5,024 posts, read 2,227,317 times
Reputation: 3914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudwalker View Post
My 10th grade son has most of his core classes (English, Geometry, World History, Physics) with a collaborative teacher. I think it's the same as what you're talking about, just haven't heard it called collaborative consultation - regular class with a Special Ed teacher providing support too. He has ADHD (yes, he was the kid in elementary who couldn't sit still) and dyslexia, which was only finally diagnosed last year, despite years of requesting testing (he wasn't tested earlier because he wasn't failing enough to justify it, despite there being clear signs). Last year was his first year with an IEP, but it was all remote learning. This is the first in-person year for him with both the IEP and co/collab-teaching.

Collab teaching has been a life-changer for us. He's a very smart kid but needed much more one-on-one work to help him keep up to speed with his peers. His collab teacher has completely turned around a miserable school experience to one where he feels capable and confident and seen. Still struggles with a few things (literary analysis, fully completing assignments, getting them in on time) but he no longer feels like it's all hopeless anymore and his grades are decent.
I have no idea how the other students or parents view it, but I know the regular teachers like it a lot. He does not leave class, all the support happens in the room. I have not read any articles on the approach, but from my pov, it's an unqualified yes to it being a good thing for our family.

Also, it's a sidenote but given that it has come up, many if not most American elementary schools require a level of sitting still and keeping quiet that is not developmentally appropriate, regardless of the child's disposition or dis/ability. But too frequently, instead of addressing that, we pathologize the behavior of the child as disruptive (which is not to say that there aren't kids who are genuinely disruptive!). Recess is short if it exists at all, playgrounds are frequently bleak, lots of schools no longer have music or art, PE which should be so engaging is too often running laps and lame games dominated by a couple of kids, never any time for free play other than a brief few minutes at lunchtime, there is no or very little movement built in to any lessons...is it any surprise so many kids have trouble paying attention?
I'm so happy to hear that it's working well for you. We have found the opposite for my son, unfortunately. His IEP specifically stated that he was NOT to be put in Gen Ed for math, but then our district introduced Collaborative - yes it's the same thing you described. He is perilously close to failing. Having a special ed teacher in the classroom does him no good because he doesn't want to be singled out, so he won't speak up when he doesn't understand something - which is nearly all the time.

He was supposed to be in a very small-group setting with similarly abled kids. He needs instructions broken down into steps, and needs directions repeated. As a sophmore in high school, who does well in other subjects, he HATES that he doesn't "get" math. We dealt okay with this last year because our school was remote at first, then broken into cohorts with one week in school, and one week remote. I sat with him every single day that he was remote, as I was out of work due to Covid. He ended up with a 'B' in the class, and our district admin is trying to use that grade as proof the the model works for him.

No, all that grade is proof of is that if you give him enough one-on-one, in a setting where he doesn't have to be embarassed about asking a hundred questions, he can do well enough.

I'm very frustrated, and can't seem to find any concrete info on metrics for the model. The only things I've found so far don't offer up any kind of measurable results, only generic 'students have great outcomes', and a handful of papers on how data is lacking.
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