Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's their choice. Shall we shackle them and force them into teaching?
Or perhaps not erect barriers to keep them out. Why would any go into a career where they are obviously not wanted; where merely expressing differing views can get them ostracized by peers and weeded out? Conservatives learn by high school to just keep silent or face negative consequences from their teachers. To give the answer the teacher wants to hear.
I thought about giving back by becoming a teacher after my military service until I ran into a system obviously designed to keep outsiders out. It was very obvious that people like me were not wanted.
I know a few conservative teachers. Everyone of them keeps their conservative views hidden from their coworkers.
Or perhaps not erect barriers to keep them out. Why would any go into a career where they are obviously not wanted; where merely expressing differing views can get them ostracized by peers and weeded out?
Right Wingers will have to crash the gates of Academia if they want things to change. The gates won't be opened if they just say "pretty please" while complaining the Left isn't playing fair.
The Left spent decades building their hegemony in Education and it may take decades for the Right to make inroads. If the Right can't be bothered then nothing will change*.
*Funny how the Right is now the Change Agent, huh? The revolution will not be tweeted.
Or perhaps not erect barriers to keep them out. Why would any go into a career where they are obviously not wanted; where merely expressing differing views can get them ostracized by peers and weeded out? Conservatives learn by high school to just keep silent or face negative consequences from their teachers. To give the answer the teacher wants to hear.
I thought about giving back by becoming a teacher after my military service until I ran into a system obviously designed to keep outsiders out. It was very obvious that people like me were not wanted.
I know a few conservative teachers. Everyone of them keeps their conservative views hidden from their coworkers.
Barriers? Anyone can enroll in college. Anyone can enroll in the education program. There's no gatekeeper that says, "Are you a conservative?"
As a principal, I did not hire a couple of teacher candidates because they talked about conservative politics in their interview. I also did not hire a couple of teacher candidates who talked about liberal politics in their interview. Why? Because politics was not what the interviews were about.
I did not want teachers in my school causing division by discussing their personal politics in the building. Keep your politics out of your job...including if you're a teacher. You're not hired and you're not being paid to discuss your personal politics in a school setting.
I believe you but around here that's roughly 180 degrees out of phase with current reality. We have several high schools around here with $40MM+ football stadiums two cost in the $60MMs. A school in South Texas has a water park on campus. Millage increases and bond offer votes pass overwhelmingly often.
This is Plano ISD's performing arts center. Actually, it's being partially re-worked due to faulty concrete but you get the picture.........
And still strife. IMO the strife occurs for a few reasons.....
A. In The US we have a wild disconnect between costs and outcomes. In the OECD and the world we are usually the number 2 or 3 per pupil spender, and by far and away the number one nominal spender, on K-12 and outcomes are always 25th-35th down the list.
The commentary I get from European exchange students amd observers is that in America, school does a lot more than "school." They are always amazed at how much of the school day is spent doing things not related to academics. Sports especially. So we pay for a lot of contact time that's not productive.
Also summer break. Proven time and again to be unproductive yet we still do it.
Quote:
B. Teachers and especially administrators tend to be well left of political center as groups. FWIIW the same trend appears at the college/university level........academics are well left of political center administrators further left.
So what? On an international scale the American left is moderate. My experience is that the median educator, what you're calling "well left," is a run of the mill Biden voter. Given that Democrats win elections half the time, this is generally mainstream. But there is a minority of conservatives in the system that is stronger than you give it credit for. I grew up in rural Texas where most of the teachers were conservatives.
Although I will say this impacts the trust issue. My observation in Europe was that the educators were generally in the mainstream of their countries' politics. From what I could tell. Leftist politics were outside the system.
Quote:
Sorry I left out my 3rd reason. About 1/3 maybe more parents are utterly disengaged. This fact poses outsized stresses on others kids and all teachers.
What can the schools do about this?
Last edited by redguard57; 06-19-2022 at 10:57 AM..
The commentary I get from European exchange students amd observers is that in America, school does a lot more than "school." They are always amazed at how much of the school day is spent doing things not related to academics. Sports especially. So we pay for a lot of contact time that's not productive.
Also summer break. Proven time and again to be unproductive yet we still do it.
So what? On an international scale the American left is moderate. My experience is that the median educator, what you're calling "well left," is a run of the mill Biden voter. Given that Democrats win elections half the time, this is generally mainstream. But there is a minority of conservatives in the system that is stronger than you give it credit for. I grew up in rural Texas where most of the teachers were conservatives.
Although I will say this impacts the trust issue. My observation in Europe was that the educators were generally in the mainstream of their countries' politics. From what I could tell. Leftist politics were outside the system.
What can the schools do about this?
1. Sports take up very little of the school day. Both of my kids were excellent athletes, each with college sports offers, and excellent students.
1.1. High school athletes tend to make great leaders and often tremendous college students.
1.2. A guy I've known since graduate school is in the eon. department at Berkeley. According to him he's one of the several most right professors in the department and he considers himself a progressive. That just the way this stuff works.
2. You can't snow me about how left of center teachers, the professorship and various administrations are. I was part of well respected econ. department that sported academics at roughly a 20:1 left to right bias the dept's. administration was 100% left.
2.1. I read the other day that almost 90% of US graduate students consider themselves left of center. That cannot be happenstance.......Instead that's grooming and real bias.
3. What can schools do?
A. IMO pre-covid RISD (Richardson Texas) had the right idea. ID kids in troubled households and do several things.
A. Pick them up early.
B. Feed them breakfast
C. School them and feed them lunch.
D. Keep them after the normal school day............during the extra afternoon time - study hall, fun time and then dinner.
E. Take them home.
Cleary the plan was to keep these kids away from their parents so much as reasonably possible.
Early indications were the effort showed signs of success. I read RISD may restart the entire thing this fall.
1. Sports take up very little of the school day. Both of my kids were excellent athletes, each with college sports offers, and excellent students.
1.1. High school athletes tend to make great leaders and often tremendous college students.
1.2. A guy I've known since graduate school is in the eon. department at Berkeley. According to him he's one of the several most right professors in the department and he considers himself a progressive. That just the way this stuff works.
2. You can't snow me about how left of center teachers, the professorship and various administrations are. I was part of well respected econ. department that sported academics at roughly a 20:1 left to right bias the dept's. administration was 100% left.
2.1. I read the other day that almost 90% of US graduate students consider themselves left of center. That cannot be happenstance.......Instead that's grooming and real bias.
3. What can schools do?
A. IMO pre-covid RISD (Richardson Texas) had the right idea. ID kids in troubled households and do several things.
A. Pick them up early.
B. Feed them breakfast
C. School them and feed them lunch.
D. Keep them after the normal school day............during the extra afternoon time - study hall, fun time and then dinner.
E. Take them home.
Cleary the plan was to keep these kids away from their parents so much as reasonably possible.
Early indications were the effort showed signs of success. I read RISD may restart the entire thing this fall.
B. Segregate kids by ability.
3. I think that would be great, but I bet you'd get a lot of pushback about cost.
2. West coast and northeast have the greatest concentration of both the elite colleges and liberals in their population, creating a feedback loop.
I only went to colleges in Texas, where I can assure you the ratio is not 20:1. Next do a survey at Texas A&M. It'll still lean liberal but a hell of a lot less, and that type of college around the country touches a LOT more students than Berkeley and the 30 or so elites ever will.
I had a college administrator once tell me, "At the end of the day, this is a business and we run it as such." How liberal is that person, really? That person was a vice president at a University of Texas branch campus.
I mean what do want to do? Blacklist the liberals and do affirmative action for conservatives? Force them to reveal who they voted for? We have a secret ballot for a reason. I don't care what their politics are as long as they do their jobs.
College faculty generally operate independently. They maybe associate with their colleagues 1x a month, unless they want to more. So I don't buy that peer pressure chases conservatives away. Grad school is similarly very isolating. My take is that conservatives are not attracted to the job, which is low pay relative to the education needed.
1. You never went to high school in Texas I guess, where during football season, Fridays are spent preparing for the football game in the evening. Seriously, no learning happened 1 day out of 5 during football season when I was in high school.
Last edited by redguard57; 06-19-2022 at 09:35 PM..
3. I think that would be great, but I bet you'd get a lot of pushback about cost.
2. West coast and northeast have the greatest concentration of both the elite colleges and liberals in their population, creating a feedback loop.
I only went to colleges in Texas, where I can assure you the ratio is not 20:1. Next do a survey at Texas A&M. It'll still lean liberal but a hell of a lot less, and that type of college around the country touches a LOT more students than Berkeley and the 30 or so elites ever will.
I had a college administrator once tell me, "At the end of the day, this is a business and we run it as such." How liberal is that person, really? That person was a vice president at a University of Texas branch campus.
I mean what do want to do? Blacklist the liberals and do affirmative action for conservatives? Force them to reveal who they voted for? We have a secret ballot for a reason. I don't care what their politics are as long as they do their jobs.
College faculty generally operate independently. They maybe associate with their colleagues 1x a month, unless they want to more. So I don't buy that peer pressure chases conservatives away. Grad school is similarly very isolating. My take is that conservatives are not attracted to the job, which is low pay relative to the education needed.
1. You never went to high school in Texas I guess, where during football season, Fridays are spent preparing for the football game in the evening. Seriously, no learning happened 1 day out of 5 during football season when I was in high school.
I don't see how any of that has anything to do with TODAY'S "school wars." As the linked article says:
"A century later, the battle over public education that afflicted the nineteen-twenties has started up again, this time over the teaching of American history."
None of those issues back in the 1920s had to do with WHAT or HOW to teach. (Well OK, "evolution" was a singular issue back then. Didn't we learn anything from that "battle"?) Personally, I do not think that politicized (or propagandized) parents are qualified to determine school curricula.
Oh sure, because teachers aren’t politicized or propagandized. Pot meet kettle.
Barriers? Anyone can enroll in college. Anyone can enroll in the education program. There's no gatekeeper that says, "Are you a conservative?"
As a principal, I did not hire a couple of teacher candidates because they talked about conservative politics in their interview. I also did not hire a couple of teacher candidates who talked about liberal politics in their interview. Why? Because politics was not what the interviews were about.
I did not want teachers in my school causing division by discussing their personal politics in the building. Keep your politics out of your job...including if you're a teacher. You're not hired and you're not being paid to discuss your personal politics in a school setting.
Oh yes, anyone can enroll in college. David Hogg from Parkland HS goes to Harvard and no one condemns accepting a left-wing extremist but oh, wow, Nicholas Sandman is accepted at Transylvania University and the ACLU calls it a “stain.” No regard that Sandman won his defamation lawsuits.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
