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I'm sitting up here with the Canadians. Some of it is just getting used to the vowel differences. Like "hock" for "hawk", removing the "aw" sound from where it's supposed to be, but then they turn around and say their capital city is Autowa.
And have weird words for common items, like eavestroughs and serviettes (gutters and napkins).
They also have some silly-sounding abbreviations just as the British do with their tellies and brollies. I internally rolled my eyes when my Canadian said, "brekkie", and then I saw it on an actual restaurant sign: "We serve brekkie until 11." But they are polite and lovable, so I let it go. Plus I'm in THEIR country, so there's that.
I don't have any problem with local dialects. That's different from not being able to use correct grammar and spelling. My grandparents came from Yorkshire in the North of England. Yorkshire dialect is derived from Old English and Scandinavian and can look like this:
appen : maybe or perhaps : Maybe I have or maybe I have not. Appen I have, appen i aint.
arf : half : I will have a half pint of your best beer. Al ave arf.
as : have : Have you been to the public house? As tha been t pub?
aye : yes : Yes I have been to the town. Aye ave been t tarn.
It's almost like an actual language of its own and outsiders cannot understand it when spoken. I respect that and I respect the way Canadians speak because it's their own local language.
I also respect (or try to, lol) regionalisms such as, "The laundry needs washed." It's not proper English but it's the local version of what's correct.
However, when someone is writing or speaking to anyone from the general public, that person needs to speak correctly. I come across so many strange grammatical constructions when I read that many times I have to go back and read it again. If people are trying to communicate with others who are outside of their local range, they need to put it into correct English.
I can forgive typos and sometimes a regionalism that creeps in because they haven't yet realized that their type of language is only understood in their own limited geographical area.
But when I worked at a university in the late '80s the professors and teaching assistants would laugh at the papers the students handed in. Back then it wasn't even as bad as it is today. Mostly the problem was sentence fragments, no paragraphs, subjects that didn't agree with the verbs, and so on.
When "kids" expect to get through college and find themselves a professional job, language matters.
Last edited by in_newengland; 05-24-2022 at 01:15 PM..
I don't have any problem with local dialects. That's different from not being able to use correct grammar and spelling. My grandparents came from Yorkshire in the North of England. Yorkshire dialect is derived from Old English and Scandinavian and can look like this:
appen : maybe or perhaps : Maybe I have or maybe I have not. Appen I have, appen i aint.
arf : half : I will have a half pint of your best beer. Al ave arf.
as : have : Have you been to the public house? As tha been t pub?
aye : yes : Yes I have been to the town. Aye ave been t tarn.
It's almost like an actual language of its own and outsiders cannot understand it when spoken. I respect that and I respect the way Canadians speak because it's their own local language.
I also respect (or try to, lol) regionalisms such as, "The laundry needs washed." It's not proper English but it's the local version of what's correct.
However, when someone is writing or speaking to anyone from the general public that person needs to speak correctly. I come across so many strange grammatical constructions when I read that many times I have to go back and read it again. If people are trying to communicate with others who are outside of their local range, they need to put it into correct English.
I can forgive typos and sometimes a regionalism that creeps in because they haven't yet realized that their type of language is only understood in their own limited geographical area.
But when I worked at a university in the late '80s the professors and teaching assistants would laugh at the papers the students handed in. Back then it wasn't even as bad as it is today. Mostly the problem was sentence fragments, no paragraphs, subjects that didn't agree with the verbs, and so on.
When "kids" expect to get through college and find themselves a professional job, language matters.
I am from FL and have to admit that MQ’s descriptions sound… totally normal to me? I think I say “hawk” and “hock” the same way and “autowa.” I am not even sure how else I would say it, tbh.
I used to get irritated by "bad grammar", but not anymore. It may simply be a marker of cultural differences, status, and education level.
Most people know good grammar from bad and can "code switch" between ain't and isn't when necessary (e.g., talking to your friends vs. your boss, or the landscaper vs. the architect).
Lol, there was a big storm in Ontario this weekend that caused a lot of damage. A few minutes ago I saw on the news that hydro workers from Alabama had come up to help make repairs, and I laughed, wondering if the Alabamans knew they were "hydro workers".
I code switched from my uneducated, one-generation-out-of-poverty semi-rural roots to better English when I started working in NYC. It wasn't drastic, but there were words and pronunciations my family used that weren't proper. I figured that out growing up. I got in trouble for being disrespectful when I told my grandmother that "ain't" wasn't a word.
I used to get irritated by "bad grammar", but not anymore. It may simply be a marker of cultural differences, status, and education level.
Most people know good grammar from bad and can "code switch" between ain't and isn't when necessary (e.g., talking to your friends vs. your boss, or the landscaper vs. the architect).
Lol, there was a big storm in Ontario this weekend that caused a lot of damage. A few minutes ago I saw on the news that hydro workers from Alabama had come up to help make repairs, and I laughed, wondering if the Alabamans knew they were "hydro workers".
I code switched from my uneducated, one-generation-out-of-poverty semi-rural roots to better English when I started working in NYC. It wasn't drastic, but there were words and pronunciations my family used that weren't proper. I figured that out growing up. I got in trouble for being disrespectful when I told my grandmother that "ain't" wasn't a word after she said it.
High school English courses have changed drastically in the last 60 years. What hasn't changed over 60 years?
And HS English courses in some parts of the country haven't changed in the last 60 years. They didn't cover grammar then, and they still don't. Or maybe, due to the increased competition for admission to state flagship universities, and the higher standards admissions offices have set, some of the high schools have actually improved ( could it be??), to meet the challenge. Or is that crazy talk?
And HS English courses in some parts of the country haven't changed in the last 60 years. They didn't cover grammar then, and they still don't. Or maybe, due to the increased competition for admission to state flagship universities, and the higher standards admissions offices have set, some of the high schools have actually improved ( could it be??), to meet the challenge. Or is that crazy talk?
Maybe in your neck of the woods. Grammar was absolutely taught in my high school decades ago. We had a workbook for 3 years. That same high school has drastically changed the curriculum as has the state.
Maybe in your neck of the woods. Grammar was absolutely taught in my high school decades ago. We had a workbook for 3 years. That same high school has drastically changed the curriculum as has the state.
That's too bad. A workbook sounds great! What was their excuse for changing the curriculum (the HS and the state)? Must be a pretty good excuse...
It's been almost 50 years, so my memory is certainly foggy about those days...
but, as best I recall, grammar wasn't taught in high school -- because we'd already had it.
My HS English classes were either composition or literature.
Grammar must've been covered in elementary school and junior high.
FWIW, two of the things that most irritate me about contemporary mis-usage are:
-- Turning nouns into verbs, as in "to impact," "to birth," etc.
(less common, also annoying, is turning verbs into nouns, as in "the ask")
-- Sports lingo... granted, it's only sports... but even so, a sportswriter shouldn't write something like:
"Without Beckham, the Rams don't make it to the Super Bowl."
Actually, the Rams DID have Beckham and DID make to the Super Bowl.
What the writer meant was, "Without Beckham, the Rams wouldn't have made it to the Super Bowl."
He should've said so.
FWIW, two of the things that most irritate me about contemporary mis-usage are:
-- Turning nouns into verbs, as in "to impact," "to birth," etc.
(less common, also annoying, is turning verbs into nouns, as in "the ask")
-- Sports lingo... granted, it's only sports... but even so, a sportswriter shouldn't write something like:
"Without Beckham, the Rams don't make it to the Super Bowl."
Actually, the Rams DID have Beckham and DID make to the Super Bowl. What the writer meant was, "Without Beckham, the Rams wouldn't have made it to the Super Bowl."
He should've said so.
Yes! I was going to add earlier, that use of the conditional and also, the subjunctive, has fallen by the wayside. I haven't really noticed if it's a generational thing or not, but it probably is. Although, I'm sure there are people in the older generations, who didn't learn those, and therefore never have used them. I've noticed this in other languages, as well. Russian has lost a lot of that type of complexity over several generations.
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could it be??), to meet the challenge. Or is that crazy talk?
