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10-23-2022, 05:41 PM
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Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
6,974 posts, read 6,059,680 times
Reputation: 13803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPC324
... I see the courts turning around and essentially telling the States to make better investments, something they are empowered to do regardless of any federal action.
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Usually the force majeure that turns good investments into bad ones is not the federal government. But, welcome to 2022. |
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10-23-2022, 10:21 PM
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Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,469 posts, read 6,276,642 times
Reputation: 16375
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If the SCOTUS overrules this, I look forward to the respect level for the instutution going into the toilet. It will prove once and for all that the SCOTUS is just another branch of partisan politics. As if any of us thought qny different.
And it will ensure that the next Democratic majority will try and reform/pack it. 2030s at the latest.
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10-23-2022, 11:31 PM
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8,153 posts, read 3,122,082 times
Reputation: 5713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
If the SCOTUS overrules this, I look forward to the respect level for the instutution going into the toilet. It will prove once and for all that the SCOTUS is just another branch of partisan politics. As if any of us thought qny different.
And it will ensure that the next Democratic majority will try and reform/pack it. 2030s at the latest.
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Politics aside, what part of the Constitution would you feel that student loan forgiveness falls under... |
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10-24-2022, 12:12 AM
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Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,469 posts, read 6,276,642 times
Reputation: 16375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLawyer2000
Politics aside, what part of the Constitution would you feel that student loan forgiveness falls under...
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The Higher Education Act of 1965 is clear that the Executive branch, and thus the president, is the boss of federal student loans.
While I'm not sure if it's constitutional to abrogate the debt entirely or en masse, it IS clear the HEA gives the power to the president to suspend collections, presumably for an indefinite time period. |
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10-24-2022, 12:30 AM
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8,153 posts, read 3,122,082 times
Reputation: 5713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
The Higher Education Act of 1965 is clear that the Executive branch, and thus the president, is the boss of federal student loans.
While I'm not sure if it's constitutional to abrogate the debt entirely or en masse, it IS clear the HEA gives the power to the president to suspend collections, presumably for an indefinite time period.
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HEA doesn't codify loan forgiveness.
The part that discusses powers of the Secretary (Exec Branch) starts with:
"In the performance of, and with respect to, the
functions, powers, and duties, vested in him by
this part, the Secretary may—"
It is up to the courts to interpret that.
Additionally, as we know, Congress has its own opinions about this:
"People think that the President of the United States has the power for debt forgiveness. He does not. He can postpone. He can delay. But he does not have that power. That has to be an act of Congress. And I don’t even like to call it forgiveness because that implies a transgression. It’s not to be forgiven, just freeing people from those obligations." - Nancy Pelosi (July 28, 2021).
Ideally, Congress will act to remove any ambiguity. |
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10-24-2022, 12:48 AM
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Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,469 posts, read 6,276,642 times
Reputation: 16375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLawyer2000
HEA doesn't codify loan forgiveness.
The part that discusses powers of the Secretary (Exec Branch) starts with:
"In the performance of, and with respect to, the
functions, powers, and duties, vested in him by
this part, the Secretary may—"
It is up to the courts to interpret that.
Additionally, as we know, Congress has its own opinions about this:
"People think that the President of the United States has the power for debt forgiveness. He does not. He can postpone. He can delay. But he does not have that power. That has to be an act of Congress. And I don’t even like to call it forgiveness because that implies a transgression. It’s not to be forgiven, just freeing people from those obligations." - Nancy Pelosi (July 28, 2021).
Ideally, Congress will act to remove any ambiguity.
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Biden's justification for forgiveness is covid emergency powers.
They won't. Or if they try, it'll be an incredibly unpopular move.
Politically, Biden was the one who was clever here. He took power where it was only ambigiously stated, and has now dared the other branches to make a very unpopular move to reverse it that would impose large costs on millions of people. |
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10-24-2022, 07:32 AM
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10,890 posts, read 6,981,264 times
Reputation: 30167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
Biden's justification for forgiveness is covid emergency powers.
They won't. Or if they try, it'll be an incredibly unpopular move.
Politically, Biden was the one who was clever here. He took power where it was only ambigiously stated, and has now dared the other branches to make a very unpopular move to reverse it that would impose large costs on millions of people.
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If this happens, where do you suppose the money to pay those loans will come from? |
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10-24-2022, 08:13 AM
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Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,469 posts, read 6,276,642 times
Reputation: 16375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff
If this happens, where do you suppose the money to pay those loans will come from?
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It will be ignored. The money is already spent. It's just giving up some future revenue.
It'll come from the same place we get the money to pay for tax cuts. Which is to say, it's revenue we won't be getting. |
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10-24-2022, 09:22 AM
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10,890 posts, read 6,981,264 times
Reputation: 30167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
It will be ignored. The money is already spent. It's just giving up some future revenue.
It'll come from the same place we get the money to pay for tax cuts. Which is to say, it's revenue we won't be getting.
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The money had to come from somewhere. How would you run a business that "loaned" the money to "buy" your product, then said, "it's just giving up future revenue." Somewhere along the way, the taxpayer will have to make up that "revenue."
How do you look a taxpayer in the eye and say "I took out the loan but you get to pay it off." |
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10-24-2022, 10:38 AM
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12,348 posts, read 12,892,260 times
Reputation: 19064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
Biden's justification for forgiveness is covid emergency powers.
They won't. Or if they try, it'll be an incredibly unpopular move.
Politically, Biden was the one who was clever here. He took power where it was only ambigiously stated, and has now dared the other branches to make a very unpopular move to reverse it that would impose large costs on millions of people.
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Unpopular? I haven't seen a poll but I would think that the vast majority of Americans do not qualify for this loan forgiveness and will not benefit from it all. Quite the opposite, actually. No one wants to be ordered to pay debts that do not belong to them. |
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