Is the Student Loan giveaway legal? (master's, PhD, bachelors, systems)

[tnff]

Originally Posted by redguard57

Harvard I'm not concerned about. Normal state colleges and universities I am.

I paid off 36k worth of student loans 8 years ago. I benefit nothing from this.

But I realize that the college I went to is rapidly increasing its costs beyond what working and even middle class people can afford. It is literally 150% more expensive than what I paid. The kinds of jobs you can get with the degrees pay maybe 20-30% more than back then.

At the current rate of increase the state college I went to will cost my kids 45k a year. It cost me 12k. Jobs won't likely pay 4x as much in 12-15 years. They don't even pay double as much now. Maybe 30% more.

What's irresponsible is not running an education system that's affordable for the working and middle classes and making people take on these debts for salaries that are not even commensurate with inflation, let alone commensurate with the 150% increase in costs over about 10-15 years, about 3-4x the rate of inflation.

The states are supposed to be responsible for education according to their state constitutions. They have run it badly and allowed this to happen. So yes this is a government failure, not an individual one on the part of people who were trying to do the responsible thing.

I believe you're mixing two different topics. The cost of college and the lack of state support is a legitimate topic for discussion. But it's separate from the one of Biden's attempt to forgive loans for some.

The problem with the whole loan discussion is the vast majority of debt are reasonable amounts. Just as the vast majority of students who took them out are doing the responsible thing. The "horror" stories are always some unusual case with someone who really wasn't acting responsibly for their choices. Like the one that I saw the other day. Young woman graduated with a BA and about $30K debt. Not unreasonable. Then decided to go back to grad school to accumulate another hundred thousand in debt. In a field where she knew going in didn't pay well in charity social work. It's hard to feel sympathy for someone who knowingly grabs hold of an electric fence.

[ddeemo]

Originally Posted by redguard57

Harvard I'm not concerned about. Normal state colleges and universities I am.

I paid off 36k worth of student loans 8 years ago. I benefit nothing from this.

But I realize that the college I went to is rapidly increasing its costs beyond what working and even middle class people can afford. It is literally 150% more expensive than what I paid. The kinds of jobs you can get with the degrees pay maybe 20-30% more than back then.

At the current rate of increase the state college I went to will cost my kids 45k a year. It cost me 12k. Jobs won't likely pay 4x as much in 12-15 years. They don't even pay double as much now. Maybe 30% more.

What's irresponsible is not running an education system that's affordable for the working and middle classes and making people take on these debts for salaries that are not even commensurate with inflation, let alone commensurate with the 150% increase in costs over about 10-15 years, about 3-4x the rate of inflation.

The states are supposed to be responsible for education according to their state constitutions. They have run it badly and allowed this to happen. So yes this is a government failure, not an individual one on the part of people who were trying to do the responsible thing.

I never had any student loans - I was on a full scholarship for undergrad, I paid for grad school via veteran benefits and savings, all at top tier schools. BTW - I was offered a partial scholarship at Harvard for grad school.

My kids have never had loans either - they did JC and local state university so costs low, paid using 529 accounts. My kids college was maybe $20-25K each for STEM degree at very good schools.

The issue with student loan forgiveness is that it makes it more likely for colleges to raise tuition and for people to get worthless degrees because the gov't will bail them out - making people pay the loans will make it more likely that your kids will not pay significantly increased rates.

[jtab4994]

Here we go again.

What's the point of debating Loan Forgiveness if the federal government maintains Loan Forbearance in perpetuity?

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/22/bide...ports-say.html

The Biden Administration has extended the loan holiday until June 30, 2023 or when the court cases around the Loan Forgiveness are resolved.

[Ceece]

I doubt any of this is legal, but it sure does get positive attention when certain people need it

[redguard57]

Originally Posted by jtab4994

Here we go again.

What's the point of debating Loan Forgiveness if the federal government maintains Loan Forbearance in perpetuity?

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/22/bide...ports-say.html

The Biden Administration has extended the loan holiday until June 30, 2023 or when the court cases around the Loan Forgiveness are resolved.

Exactly what I expected. You can bet your bottom dollar it will be extended 3 more times through the end of Biden's presidency.

I think Biden is playing clever politics here - putting the unpopular move of restarting payments onto the next president. Basically telling young people, "if you don't want to pay this, elect me."

Big question is, what happens to the loans that were given out to students *this year?* Will they be included in the pause? If so, what we have is a clever way to stealth free college into our system.

[Rocko20]

Originally Posted by Ceece

I doubt any of this is legal

Of course it's not legal.

The economy would collapse if no one ever paid their bills.

In the meantime, this student loan pause will continually be extended (as student loan forgiveness is tied up in the courts) until it's no longer politically beneficial. Which means at least 2024.

[NCN]

Originally Posted by jtab4994

FYI -- I started this thread rather than tack onto the existing mega-thread on the $10k forgiveness, because that thread has a different focus.

My intention here is to discuss the mechanics of how the forgiveness could be done, if it can be done at all.

Personally I believe we would be better served by perhaps expanding the existing Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, and not extending blanket handouts to people (again, like my own adult sons) who don't need any help.

Congress controls our nations pocket book. President has no right to take over their job. Supreme court wrongly upheld Obama by allowing him to put a tax on all of America with Obamacare. It will some day go the way of Roe vs Wade which was a wrong decision by supreme court. We had to endure that bad decision for at least 50 years.

[jmgg]

Originally Posted by redguard57

Exactly what I expected. You can bet your bottom dollar it will be extended 3 more times through the end of Biden's presidency.

I think Biden is playing clever politics here - putting the unpopular move of restarting payments onto the next president. Basically telling young people, "if you don't want to pay this, elect me."

Big question is, what happens to the loans that were given out to students *this year?* Will they be included in the pause? If so, what we have is a clever way to stealth free college into our system.

Your post nails what's REALLY going on perfectly. Pure politics and it worked. Just check out the voting block of 18-29 year old's. Biden and the Dem's will play this out through the next election to get naive young people to buy their BS just one more time. Then, they'll say "Oh well", "too bad, so sad". What we tried just turned out to be unconstitutional.

[redguard57]

Originally Posted by jmgg

Your post nails what's REALLY going on perfectly. Pure politics and it worked. Just check out the voting block of 18-29 year old's. Biden and the Dem's will play this out through the next election to get naive young people to buy their BS just one more time. Then, they'll say "Oh well", "too bad, so sad". What we tried just turned out to be unconstitutional.

It's not just 18-29s. Student loans are a problem for lots of people under 50.

[jmgg]

Originally Posted by redguard57

It's not just 18-29s. Student loans are a problem for lots of people under 50.

I'm Very aware of that. As I've stated on this site more times than I can count. The problem wasn't the loans themselves. It was the interest rates charged when we as a country were flirting with zero percent interest over a long span. Obviously, not now or for the immediate future. When interest rates were well into the double digits in my day, I could get student loans for 4% (through my state) and 6% (Federal Direct Loan). What's wrong with this picture?

My 40 year old daughter is still saddled with student loans that she took out when she was going for her doctorate. She makes decent money, but with her income and her husband's (who doesn't make much) they still can't see clear to pay off the balance that's owed.