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Old 10-16-2022, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Earth
963 posts, read 516,017 times
Reputation: 2304

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
There are so many disturbing aspects to this, but it caught my attention that the students objected to the professor seeming condescending and demanding. This sounds to me like kids who've been incessantly praised and coddled all their lives and are destined to be jolted by the working world.



At N.Y.U., Students Were Failing Organic Chemistry. Who Was to Blame?
Maitland Jones Jr., a respected professor, defended his standards. But students started a petition, and the university dismissed him.

“Students were misreading exam questions at an astonishing rate,” he wrote in a grievance to the university, protesting his termination. Grades fell even as he reduced the difficulty of his exams. The problem was exacerbated by the pandemic, he said. “In the last two years, they fell off a cliff,” he wrote. “We now see single digit scores and even zeros." After several years of Covid learning loss, the students not only didn’t study, they didn’t seem to know how to study, Dr. Jones said.
And, they said, he had a “condescending and demanding” tone.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/03/u...-petition.html
Pfff. Cry babies. Ochem is one the hardest courses you can take at the bachelors level. If you cant cut it then maybe you need to change your major to communications or something easy.
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Old 10-16-2022, 03:22 PM
 
Location: USA
8,931 posts, read 5,963,280 times
Reputation: 29245
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
Even pre-pandemic, his reviews at Rate My Professor were mostly average and awful.

https://www.ratemyprofessors.com/professor?tid=1052652


There is much better feedback from Princeton where he is Professor Emeritus.

"Speaking on his colleague’s approach to teaching, Erik Sorensen, a Princeton professor who worked with Jones, said he finds fault with the NYU students’ complaints.

“Maitland Jones is one of organic chemistry’s finest teachers. He possesses the ability to inspire students who have an affinity for the subject,” Sorensen wrote in a statement to the ‘Prince.’

Former student Dr. Evan Tobin ’88 described Jones as an “unbelievable lecturer” in an interview with the ‘Prince.’

His class was “really hard and it was really great,” said Tobin, noting that Jones’s organic chemistry class was one of his favorite classes at Princeton.

“He was a purist. This is a subject that he devoted his life to, and he had the bar very high and he expected people to meet it,” Stephanie Morris ’88 explained. "



https://www.dailyprincetonian.com/ar...sor-terminated
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Old 10-16-2022, 03:29 PM
 
12,660 posts, read 8,883,944 times
Reputation: 34621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillie767 View Post
There is much better feedback from Princeton where he is Professor Emeritus.

"Speaking on his colleague’s approach to teaching, Erik Sorensen, a Princeton professor who worked with Jones, said he finds fault with the NYU students’ complaints.

“Maitland Jones is one of organic chemistry’s finest teachers. He possesses the ability to inspire students who have an affinity for the subject,” Sorensen wrote in a statement to the ‘Prince.’

Former student Dr. Evan Tobin ’88 described Jones as an “unbelievable lecturer” in an interview with the ‘Prince.’

His class was “really hard and it was really great,” said Tobin, noting that Jones’s organic chemistry class was one of his favorite classes at Princeton.

“He was a purist. This is a subject that he devoted his life to, and he had the bar very high and he expected people to meet it,” Stephanie Morris ’88 explained. "



https://www.dailyprincetonian.com/ar...sor-terminated
Unfortunately this actually leads me to think he wasn't up to par anymore. Note these are folks who had him in 1988, likely when he was at the top of his game. I had a couple of professors like that who had been outstanding, but just weren't anymore. It was sad to be a student of them in those later years and sad to watch the obvious happening.
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Old 10-16-2022, 06:03 PM
 
472 posts, read 345,269 times
Reputation: 573
If professors become so demanding or won't change ways- to some of the following points, they will get bad reviews or be asked to leave.

1. Always high failure rates in most classes and most semesters- Very big red flag, the word will get out. Yes, some students should absolutely get F's, but when you hear majority of classes have students complaining when they studied, turned in all assignments, tried to get help, and we hear this from many students of having to fail or drop out despite staying on top and working hard, there is a problem.

2. Workload-, having huge workloads, to where it seems like there is too much work to study and it takes over all classes. This is a problem too, yes some classes are harder than others, but when the workload is insane, and tons of assignments, there is also something wrong.

3. Personality/class guidelines. Always or generally being is a bad mood- Avoidance, being rude to students, caring very little about lives, low empathy for reasons needed to extend assignments. Giving zero's for missing something and allowing no makeup for any reason. Yes, some abuse this policy but others really need to make adjustments with their due dates.

Yes, some students take it way to far where they expect an A for doing nothing. But as a previous college student, now I'm a high school math teacher, some professors I had took things way to far where I had to drop. Then I could take it with another teacher who cared, made you work, but is was doable and not insane.
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Old 10-16-2022, 06:08 PM
 
472 posts, read 345,269 times
Reputation: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Unfortunately this actually leads me to think he wasn't up to par anymore. Note these are folks who had him in 1988, likely when he was at the top of his game. I had a couple of professors like that who had been outstanding, but just weren't anymore. It was sad to be a student of them in those later years and sad to watch the obvious happening.
You made an excellent point. Some teachers can go through major changes. Once they were the top of their game 10 years ago now no one or hardly anyone wants to be in their class. It's either a change in interest, a major life event, and or burnout. Burnout among teachers can change everything.
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Old 10-16-2022, 06:11 PM
 
472 posts, read 345,269 times
Reputation: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by averysgore View Post
Jeezum crow, the guy is 84 years old. I think letting him go is doing everyone a favor. Can't imagine teaching such a brutal class at that age. Maybe, just maybe a "fun" seminar-type class.
I agree, I wouldn't want to teach a class like that if I was 84. That would be way too much.
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Old 10-16-2022, 06:19 PM
 
472 posts, read 345,269 times
Reputation: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
Even pre-pandemic, his reviews at Rate My Professor were mostly average and awful.

https://www.ratemyprofessors.com/professor?tid=1052652
When you have many or most students give a professor a bad review, there is a red flag. It's not the teacher's calling anymore. At least in my opinion, unless every teacher there that teaches the same subject gets nearly the same bad reviews, it's just not worth it and the teacher needs to change or find something else. What this does is causes lots of problems for the students wanting to get their degrees. People have to constantly drop.
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Old 10-16-2022, 07:24 PM
 
7,193 posts, read 4,002,227 times
Reputation: 16404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Educator1982 View Post
When you have many or most students give a professor a bad review, there is a red flag. It's not the teacher's calling anymore.
I know public school teachers who are pulling their hair out. After online learning, students forgot how to act in class. They'll put their heads down on their desks to nap. One kid even laid down on the floor. They are fighting with each other over trivial matters. They aren't handing in homework and meeting deadlines.

Granted this isn't college, but I'm sure college students aren't functioning well either. College requires discipline. Between the helicopter parents and the two years of online learning, kids have lost any sense of discipline.

I wouldn't be so quick to blame the professor.
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Old 10-16-2022, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,351 posts, read 23,934,770 times
Reputation: 32635
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
I know public school teachers who are pulling their hair out. After online learning, students forgot how to act in class. They'll put their heads down on their desks to nap. One kid even laid down on the floor. They are fighting with each other over trivial matters. They aren't handing in homework and meeting deadlines.

Granted this isn't college, but I'm sure college students aren't functioning well either. College requires discipline. Between the helicopter parents and the two years of online learning, kids have lost any sense of discipline.

I wouldn't be so quick to blame the professor.
Most of the people I know who are his age...are dead. Ageism...nope...I'm 73.
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Old 10-17-2022, 03:37 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,089 posts, read 107,180,349 times
Reputation: 115885
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
Even pre-pandemic, his reviews at Rate My Professor were mostly average and awful.

https://www.ratemyprofessors.com/professor?tid=1052652
12 students rated him "good" to "great" or "awesome". 3 rated him "ok" to "aweful". That's pretty typical in the ratings for professors who require a lot from their students. The majority appreciate the difficulty of the course, usually saying, "it was a tough course, but I learned a lot", while there are always some disgruntled ones at the bottom.
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