Antipathy Toward College Educated (bachelor degree, public school, logic, science)

[Slater]

The more highly educated types (and the institutions they attended) tend to have a more Liberal bent. In the more Conservative areas, that can lead to the usual conflicts.

[jtab4994]

Originally Posted by Slater

The more highly educated types (and the institutions they attended) tend to have a more Liberal bent. In the more Conservative areas, that can lead to the usual conflicts.

True, although we do see conservatives like Ron DeSantis, Mike Pompeo, and Bill O'Reilly getting advanced degrees from the Ivy's. I wonder what the classroom discussions were like with those guys in the room.

[redguard57]

Originally Posted by M3 Mitch

Well, actually *analyzing* Shakespeare is of very limited practical value, *however* the skills so developed are of great practical value. Consider it the intellectual analog of weight training. Bench pressing a barbell is not actually useful work. The muscles developed by doing it, however, can be valuable.

Of course not all intellectual development happens in an accredited college. I learned quite a lot about nuclear power and its practical applications in the Navy Nuke program. And I have studied Russian Language in informal classes for over 20 years. So while I don't have the "pedigree" for that study, I still know the material.

Exactly. The weight training analogy is a good one.

I didn't think my own education was worth much until I realized that the cumulative impact of all the courses I took was a process of developing skills.

But yeah, any of the individual courses were of limited value on their own.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by jtab4994

The perception that only one party is "pushing" trade schools should tell us something, too. There should be two parties pushing trade schools.

...

The fact that nearly all national political figures attended Ivy League schools (or the equivalent) is hardly a ringing endorsement of that system. Look at the shape we're in. The same people who caused the problems are now telling us that only they have the expertise to fix them.

....

and a bigger problem... Those that are not suited for college are seldom suited for trade school either.

A select few will pursue innovation or self employment, but those are the ones capable, but bored with traditional school.

Too many; don't want to work, are not interested in furthering their education, are not engaged citizens, they are just 'observers' in life. Preferring to be entertained than to seek being a contribution to society.

Changing our country's 'attitude' is gonna take a lot of time and work and probably pain and persecution (no more free lunches. )

"Antipathy Toward College Educated", can come from having to hire them (and expect them to be capable or want to work)

Or from your existing workers who see the new starting wages, and what new employees are capable or interested or willing in accomplishment (very little, the less the better).

[Avondalist]

Replace the thread title with Antipathy Towards the Better Paid or Antipathy Towards Those in Power, and it will maybe make more sense.

Education is the means by which the power structure of today legitimizes itself, to itself. It's a better means of doing so than birthright, but not by much if you look at class solidification in the US.

[sheena12]

This antipathy is nothing new, and I really don't think it is connected to student loan forgiveness. There was no such problem with debt or loan forgiveness when I was applying to college in the 1970s. yet I incurred similar antipathy from my friends who were not college bound. Many had the grades, and their parents had the money, to send them to college. They just didn't feel like it, and a college education was not stressed or encouraged by their parents, Some parents stressed work, and parents of girls often stressed marriage.

Here are some of the remarks and advice I heard from these friends while takins the SATs and traveling to visit colleges and be interviewed.

1. Why don't you just go to Nassau Community College? Me - I could do much better than NCC, my parents were not going to buy me a car, they wanted me to go away, as they did. Also, I want to go to a four-year college.

2. Why don't you go to Long Island University? - See above. Also, I wanted to leave Long Island.

3. Why don't you go to Katherine Gibbs? (A secretarial school.) - I am a terrible typist and I am not interested in secretarial work.

4. Why do you hate Long Island so much? - Me - I don't. I just want to go away. It's what my family does.

5. Why are you going to college in Massachusetts? You were accepted in schools in New York? Me - I have always loved New England, I have some friends in New England colleges and I feel like experiencing something new.

So, this "interrogation" went on until I left. I had a pool party, and only ONE friend who wasn't going away to college attended. Her father owned a Dodge dealership and gave her a choice of a brand new 1977 Charger a part time job in his office, and a year at a local "modeling school" My mother, who was also tall, told her and her mom that no one needed "modeling school" - you just needed to be very tall and attractive and have a recent snapshot. My mother had done some modeling in High School. She took the Charger and went to the local modeling school.

Every holiday or summer when those of us who went away returned home, we were criticized. We had developed "phony accents". We always wanted to go out or into NYC and they wanted to smoke pot and watch TV.
We liked different music than we once did. We were always talking about college and people who they didn't know.

In retrospect, I can understand how they felt that our choices were a repudiation of their choices. We didn't mean it that way. College had changed us, though. We DID listen to different music - thanks to college sponsored concerts and college radio we knew other music.

Sadly, the friends who stayed home did not do very well. They married their High School sweethearts, had money problems, many experienced domestic violence, they were evicted from local apartments and wound-up living in their parents' finished basement. One died in a motorcycle accident which was especially sad.

They attended various trade schools and had a hard time obtaining employment. One got a job at a small hospital as a lab tech. The money wasn't very good. Another went to travel agency school and got a minimum wage job at a travel agency in the mall.

A few died in their late 40s and 50s of illnesses that were related to lifestyle choices. One did OK. She married an older man who she met while working at her dad's Dodge dealership. They moved to California. I think her father's relative prosperity and her good looks gave her an edge over the others.

I don't know what their fascination with these for-profit trade schools was. We had a good community college. I think the problem was, they didn't want to take one class that wasn't hands on and involved a biology, English comp. or psychology class. Also, the trade schools were 6 months to a year. Community College was two years or a little more. They were attached to their hometown and not very interested in meeting students who were from other parts of Long Island.

I don't know where any of them are now. I have checked social media.

Reading this, I am reminded of the movie "American Graffiti" which we all saw a few years earlier. A lot of them reminded me of a character played by Paul LaMott whose life consisted of cruising the main street of their small California town. He was obsessed with his car and driving the strip - we had a strip too, where people drove around looking for friends, looking for news of a party, some weed or a pretty girl.

I think they were afraid, and they longed for the simplicity that their parents enjoyed in the 1950s. They focused on the rear-view mirror, not the road ahead. Writing this, I feel sad. I hope I wasn't silly or snobbish, but I probably was.
I think I should write about all of these people, our interesting pretty little town, that was at once comforting and stifling. These were the last years where middle- and working-class people could still live in Oyster Bay. Soon it would be overtaken by wealthy outsiders. Homes that cost $50,000 now cost $1.5 million.
The Bowling Alley is gone, and so is the soda fountain and jukebox. There is no Dodge dealer, there are places where one can but a Lexus or a Mercedes. The homes that housed lower middle class white and black people were leveled in the 1980s to make room for condos. A small 1.5 story Cape Cod style home with 2 or 3 bedrooms and one bath sell for half a million, or they've been expanded so they are unrecognizable. We once had three public elementary schools, now there is only one. Mine was torn down to build luxury housing.

[tnff]

Originally Posted by Slater

The more highly educated types (and the institutions they attended) tend to have a more Liberal bent. In the more Conservative areas, that can lead to the usual conflicts.

I suspect there are a lot more conservatives that are highly educated than a reading of media stories would lead one to believe. Rather, like most conservatives, they are too busy getting things done to be making headlines complaining about those who get things done.

[Rocko20]

Originally Posted by CCS414

This element has always been there and I don't think loan forgiveness has made it worse.

Before I received my degree, I did not have antipathy towards the college educated. I had a sense of urgency to become one. I was the first one in my family to get a degree.

[pathrunner]

Originally Posted by tnff

I suspect there are a lot more conservatives that are highly educated than a reading of media stories would lead one to believe. Rather, like most conservatives, they are too busy getting things done to be making headlines complaining about those who get things done.

Too many of those conservatives "getting things done" make headlines by blocking others who are trying to get things done. And you apparently think that's a good thing - and that it constitutes "getting thing done."

[jmgg]

Originally Posted by tnff

I suspect there are a lot more conservatives that are highly educated than a reading of media stories would lead one to believe. Rather, like most conservatives, they are too busy getting things done to be making headlines complaining about those who get things done.

Nailed it!!!