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Old 10-22-2022, 07:59 AM
 
10,894 posts, read 6,988,743 times
Reputation: 30172

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
This antipathy is nothing new, and I really don't think it is connected to student loan forgiveness. There was no such problem with debt or loan forgiveness when I was applying to college in the 1970s. yet I incurred similar antipathy from my friends who were not college bound. Many had the grades, and their parents had the money, to send them to college. They just didn't feel like it, and a college education was not stressed or encouraged by their parents, Some parents stressed work, and parents of girls often stressed marriage. ...

The Bowling Alley is gone, and so is the soda fountain and jukebox. There is no Dodge dealer, there are places where one can but a Lexus or a Mercedes. The homes that housed lower middle class white and black people were leveled in the 1980s to make room for condos. A small 1.5 story Cape Cod style home with 2 or 3 bedrooms and one bath sell for half a million, or they've been expanded so they are unrecognizable. We once had three public elementary schools, now there is only one. Mine was torn down to build luxury housing.
I think you have excellently described my and my friends who went to college lives. We've all experienced exactly what you describe from our old hometown friends we grew up with. College changes you. Going away to college changes you even more. One of the reasons I don't support the idea of "commuter college" where, even though it's a four year degree, you still live at home and commute every day. Mom still does the cooking and cleaning and laundry. Still hang out with the high school friends still doing the same things and still driving that same strip. So much growth is missed that way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
In retrospect, I can understand how they felt that our choices were a repudiation of their choices. We didn't mean it that way. College had changed us, though. We DID listen to different music - thanks to college sponsored concerts and college radio we knew other music.

I think they were afraid, and they longed for the simplicity that their parents enjoyed in the 1950s. They focused on the rear-view mirror, not the road ahead. Writing this, I feel sad. I hope I wasn't silly or snobbish, but I probably was.
.
I've seen that same thought. The funny thing is, we weren't repudiating their choices, but they were, as this thread is about, still are, repudiating ours.

And yes, it makes me sad too thinking about it. They wanted so badly to hang onto the life their parents had while they were growing up. Today, the mill so many had focused their lives on is closed. Jobs are gone. Stores are gone. The school I went to shut down. In the end, so many of them lost the very thing they were clinging to and moved away, looking for work, with not much to show. A scenario repeated over and over again throughout the country.
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Old 10-22-2022, 08:01 AM
 
10,894 posts, read 6,988,743 times
Reputation: 30172
Quote:
Originally Posted by pathrunner View Post
Too many of those conservatives "getting things done" make headlines by blocking others who are trying to get things done. And you apparently think that's a good thing - and that it constitutes "getting thing done."
You're going to have to explain what you're saying. I'm not following your logic here. Why do you object to people getting things done?
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Old 10-22-2022, 08:37 AM
 
7,115 posts, read 3,980,246 times
Reputation: 11379
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
You're going to have to explain what you're saying. I'm not following your logic here. Why do you object to people getting things done?
I object to the idea that "people are getting things done" when they are actually just blocking those who are trying to get things done.
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Old 10-22-2022, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Bloomington IN
8,475 posts, read 11,092,590 times
Reputation: 23659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solere View Post
This is not a political post.

Recent media reports of government proposed student loan debt forgiveness in my opinion seem to have unleashed a lot of antipathy toward college educated people collectively.

When I have written persuasive letters in the past quoting professors and subject matter experts with higher education degrees, those with no college education would sometimes respond with a "What do they know?" attitude" or "I don't need a professor" to tell me what to think" remark.

Has there for many years been an underlying antipathy toward the college educated from the non-college educated that was aggravated by the recently announced debt forgiveness plan?
Anti-intellectualism has long been part of U.S. social history. I contend that the debt forgiveness is just another way for certain segments in our country to continue their divisive rhetoric. Stirring up this anti-science, anti-research, anti-intellectual sentiment started 6 years ago.
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Old 10-22-2022, 09:15 AM
 
7,115 posts, read 3,980,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrah View Post
Anti-intellectualism has long been part of U.S. social history. I contend that the debt forgiveness is just another way for certain segments in our country to continue their divisive rhetoric. Stirring up this anti-science, anti-research, anti-intellectual sentiment started 6 years ago.
Exactly. Always an excuse to continue the divisive rhetoric, and step it up with anti-science, anti-research, and anti-education.

And I do have a problem with a lot of home schoolers who are indoctrinating their children every bit as much as those who are supposedly indoctrinating public school children with things the home schoolers don't agree with (to say the least).
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Old 10-22-2022, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Sioux Falls, SD area
4,344 posts, read 6,092,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrah View Post
Anti-intellectualism has long been part of U.S. social history. I contend that the debt forgiveness is just another way for certain segments in our country to continue their divisive rhetoric. Stirring up this anti-science, anti-research, anti-intellectual sentiment started 6 years ago.
I agree with your first statement. Then you blew it with your 2nd statement. People who didn't, and often couldn't, attend college have NO obligation to pay off this debt incurred by others. It has NOTHING to do with divisive rhetoric. It has everything to do with basic fairness and government screwing up something that should be handled with simple common sense. I have a business loan that I'd like paid off. If you refuse to pay off MY loan after I approach you about doing such, is this divisive rhetoric on your part?

The people that borrowed this money, owe it. What government SHOULD be doing, is looking into why the interest on these college loans were allowed to be so high when the interest rates at that time were near zero. The banks and universities, with the help of politicians, were ripping off these students.

A lot about what people who went to college on this thread mentioned that they experienced from their friends who didn't go, is so true. I was the first in my quite large family to graduate with a Bachelor degree. Just this paper alone did create an obvious division within my family, and with some of my old friends. I didn't change that much, but their perception of me, for better or worse, did.

What I learned the most from college was not so much what I learned, but HOW TO learn. This knowledge alone set me up for decent success for the rest of my life.
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Old 10-22-2022, 10:56 AM
 
10,894 posts, read 6,988,743 times
Reputation: 30172
Quote:
Originally Posted by pathrunner View Post
I object to the idea that "people are getting things done" when they are actually just blocking those who are trying to get things done.
How is my getting things done keeping you from getting things done?
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Old 10-22-2022, 10:56 AM
 
7,115 posts, read 3,980,246 times
Reputation: 11379
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgg View Post
I agree with your first statement. Then you blew it with your 2nd statement. People who didn't, and often couldn't, attend college have NO obligation to pay off this debt incurred by others. It has NOTHING to do with divisive rhetoric. It has everything to do with basic fairness and government screwing up something that should be handled with simple common sense. I have a business loan that I'd like paid off. If you refuse to pay off MY loan after I approach you about doing such, is this divisive rhetoric on your part?

The people that borrowed this money, owe it. What government SHOULD be doing, is looking into why the interest on these college loans were allowed to be so high when the interest rates at that time were near zero. The banks and universities, with the help of politicians, were ripping off these students.

A lot about what people who went to college on this thread mentioned that they experienced from their friends who didn't go, is so true. I was the first in my quite large family to graduate with a Bachelor degree. Just this paper alone did create an obvious division within my family, and with some of my old friends. I didn't change that much, but their perception of me, for better or worse, did.

What I learned the most from college was not so much what I learned, but HOW TO learn. This knowledge alone set me up for decent success for the rest of my life.
Was your business loan predatory?

Life isn't fair. Do you think that people who are getting forgiveness have always had it fair other than getting the forgiveness, which now may not even happen? You have no idea what else has gone on in their lives.
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Old 10-22-2022, 10:58 AM
 
10,894 posts, read 6,988,743 times
Reputation: 30172
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgg View Post
I agree with your first statement. Then you blew it with your 2nd statement. People who didn't, and often couldn't, attend college have NO obligation to pay off this debt incurred by others. It has NOTHING to do with divisive rhetoric. It has everything to do with basic fairness and government screwing up something that should be handled with simple common sense. I have a business loan that I'd like paid off. If you refuse to pay off MY loan after I approach you about doing such, is this divisive rhetoric on your part?

The people that borrowed this money, owe it. What government SHOULD be doing, is looking into why the interest on these college loans were allowed to be so high when the interest rates at that time were near zero. The banks and universities, with the help of politicians, were ripping off these students.

A lot about what people who went to college on this thread mentioned that they experienced from their friends who didn't go, is so true. I was the first in my quite large family to graduate with a Bachelor degree. Just this paper alone did create an obvious division within my family, and with some of my old friends. I didn't change that much, but their perception of me, for better or worse, did.

What I learned the most from college was not so much what I learned, but HOW TO learn. This knowledge alone set me up for decent success for the rest of my life.
Excellent statement.
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Old 10-22-2022, 11:53 AM
 
2,783 posts, read 889,456 times
Reputation: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
OK At least that sounds like a valuable degree.

Many degrees today don't seem to have a lot of actual value. Some may actually be a negative. That was my point. That's why the perception may be changing.
Which of today’s degrees are without value?
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