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Old 10-22-2022, 11:00 AM
 
3,356 posts, read 1,232,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
I think there is a real, growing realization that college is all too often not a place where people learn good life skills, it's where common sense goes to die, replaced by woke nonsense.

Now... there are exceptions... engineering and medicine are still fields where college makes you smarter, mostly

Most of the liberal arts degrees now, however, only serve to make people less functional in society, imho.

And at the same time, I think thanks to Mike Rowe and others, the trades and trade schools have been revived and shown to be more valid and practical pathways for many young people. This is a good thing!

Maybe in time the colleges will start teaching more useful skills again. But we hopefully will be better for having stronger trades and many choosing NOT to get useless four year degrees just to say we did.
You don’t think computer programmers, business analysts, school teachers, robotics operators or pastors need a college education?
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Old 10-22-2022, 11:02 AM
 
2,479 posts, read 2,211,652 times
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Default Re-think

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solere View Post
This is not a political post.

Recent media reports of government proposed student loan debt forgiveness in my opinion seem to have unleashed a lot of antipathy toward college educated people collectively.

When I have written persuasive letters in the past quoting professors and subject matter experts with higher education degrees, those with no college education would sometimes respond with a "What do they know?" attitude" or "I don't need a professor" to tell me what to think" remark.

Has there for many years been an underlying antipathy toward the college educated from the non-college educated that was aggravated by the recently announced debt forgiveness plan?

I am sure there are things that make me what I am, I received from 4 years of a liberal arts education. But for my "ed-mun-cation," I only took with me the catch phrase, "An unexamined life is not worth living."

For which I spent thousands of dollars.
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Old 10-22-2022, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Sioux Falls, SD area
4,860 posts, read 6,918,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pathrunner View Post
Was your business loan predatory?

Life isn't fair. Do you think that people who are getting forgiveness have always had it fair other than getting the forgiveness, which now may not even happen? You have no idea what else has gone on in their lives.
No, and neither was the college loans. In most every cases, the principal and interest was clearly stated. No one held a gun to the heads of the students that took these out.

Now, if your question was were these loans fair considering the interest rate environment we were in? Then, the answer to that is NO. Yet, these borrowers still took them out with full knowledge (or at least they should have read into them). People who borrowed money to start a business and then worked their tail off to pay off these loans aren't getting any $ 10,000 breaks. These people should be under no obligation to pay off YOUR student loan. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THESE NEW BUSINESS ENTREPRENEURS HAVE GONE THRU IN THEIR LIVES EITHER. In many cases they risked everything that they owned to start their business.

Now as to fairness, what about all the people working long hours and 2 jobs who paid off their student loans. Are THEY getting any reimbursement?

Any antipathy towards college students concerning student loans, I fully understand.
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Old 10-22-2022, 03:37 PM
KCZ
 
4,663 posts, read 3,658,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgg View Post
...People who didn't, and often couldn't, attend college have NO obligation to pay off this debt incurred by others. It has NOTHING to do with divisive rhetoric. It has everything to do with basic fairness and government screwing up something that should be handled with simple common sense. I have a business loan that I'd like paid off. If you refuse to pay off MY loan after I approach you about doing such, is this divisive rhetoric on your part?

The people that borrowed this money, owe it. What government SHOULD be doing, is looking into why the interest on these college loans were allowed to be so high when the interest rates at that time were near zero. The banks and universities, with the help of politicians, were ripping off these students...

And to the above, I'd add that people who did attend college, and who did work their butts off to pay off their own student loan debt, should have no obligation to pay someone else's. Lack of personal responsibility is the real problem here.
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Old 10-22-2022, 03:42 PM
 
13,285 posts, read 8,442,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgg View Post
No, and neither was the college loans. In most every cases, the principal and interest was clearly stated. No one held a gun to the heads of the students that took these out.

Now, if your question was were these loans fair considering the interest rate environment we were in? Then, the answer to that is NO. Yet, these borrowers still took them out with full knowledge (or at least they should have read into them). People who borrowed money to start a business and then worked their tail off to pay off these loans aren't getting any $ 10,000 breaks. These people should be under no obligation to pay off YOUR student loan. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THESE NEW BUSINESS ENTREPRENEURS HAVE GONE THRU IN THEIR LIVES EITHER. In many cases they risked everything that they owned to start their business.

Now as to fairness, what about all the people working long hours and 2 jobs who paid off their student loans. Are THEY getting any reimbursement?

Any antipathy towards college students concerning student loans, I fully understand.
I respectfully comprehend and lean towards your statements.

The saying : it's easier to ask for forgiveness then to ask permission .
Which is the crux of this : loan forgiveness without asking the tax payers what they are willing to ' forgive'.
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Old 10-22-2022, 03:53 PM
 
17,349 posts, read 16,485,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pathrunner View Post
Was your business loan predatory?

Life isn't fair. Do you think that people who are getting forgiveness have always had it fair other than getting the forgiveness, which now may not even happen? You have no idea what else has gone on in their lives.
It seems that the only people calling their student loans "predatory" are the ones who are not paying their loans off themselves.

If you applied for the loan and agreed to the terms by signing for that loan then you really are the only one obligated to pay that loan back.

It's mind boggling to me that college educated student loan borrowers now expect others, many of whom have never even attended college, to pay their loans off for them. I find that unconscionable actually.
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Old 10-22-2022, 04:04 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,690 posts, read 57,994,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
It seems that the only people calling their student loans "predatory" are the ones who are not paying their loans off themselves.

If you applied for the loan and agreed to the terms by signing for that loan then you really are the only one obligated to pay that loan back.

It's mind boggling to me that college educated student loan borrowers now expect others, many of whom have never even attended college, to pay their loans off for them. I find that unconscionable actually.
Maybe after we get through this college loan forgiveness we can start working on mortgage forgiveness, especially for those of us who were working 3+ jobs as college age kids, caring for and buying homes our parents @12% interest of the 1980's.

Many of the USA veterans who daily faced death (not by choice) to qualify for their GI Bill. Not all came home and were able to go to college.

"I find that unconscionable actually."
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Old 10-22-2022, 05:34 PM
 
9,070 posts, read 6,300,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
I think the sentiment has been there for a long time (decades). Consider a non-college educated person who has been working for four years encounters a college educated person who hasn't, specifically someone with a useless liberal arts degree which doesn't really prepare you for much. The former has a real world understanding and the latter has had liberal smoke blown up their behind by liberal professors trapped in their liberal bubble.

It's different for those with a technical degree, like a doctor, engineer, scientist. I think they always have been respected by the non-college educated.
Respect has awlays had to be earned. The question is whether a random college degree is enough to earn respect and I would say no. A college degree today is the equivaelent of a high school diploma 40 years ago.
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Old 10-22-2022, 06:39 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
24,096 posts, read 32,437,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstarling View Post
Which of today’s degrees are without value?
None are "without value". To even think that is absurd.
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Old 10-22-2022, 11:01 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
24,096 posts, read 32,437,200 times
Reputation: 68283
Before Ronald Reagan's war on higher education, paying for college - especially state universities was relatively easy. Having attended college in the 70s, I was fortunate to not need financial aid.

Many people do not realize that Reagan's was on educating people with modest incomes began in the 1980s. The banks profited at the student's expense.

Student loan forgiveness is righting a moral wrong that continues to burden our youth, and further divide our country.

Please read this - https://www.commondreams.org/views/2...-ronald-reagan
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