Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 10-28-2022, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Juneau, AK + Puna, HI
10,547 posts, read 7,739,679 times
Reputation: 16044

Advertisements

It's been around forever, to some degree or another.

My father grew up in a small Wisconsin farming town. He shared with me an interaction that occurred at a local bar there during one of his 1950's college break visits. (PHD in biology).

A man was going on to him about how many "educated idiots" there were in the country.

My father replied: "Yes, but they're greatly outnumbered by uneducated idiots". The perfect retort, IMO.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-28-2022, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,065 posts, read 7,231,566 times
Reputation: 17146
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
That might be the case for the arts and the social-sciences, and for law. Less likely for the hard-sciences or medicine. Even less likely for engineering or business.

In engineering, the plurality of the faculty are probably from India, China, the Middle East. These are hardly societies that in the Western sense are regarded as "liberal".
Even then, what does it matter? To paraphrase my dad, most professors I've ever encountered struck me as "the kinds of people who voted for Obama." So what? They can still do their jobs.

Yes, not as many conservatives among them, but to me it seems generally because they are not attracted to that line of work. When I was in grad school there were some conservatives, but literally all of them went into other fields than academia. The only ones that persisted in academia were the progressive dreamer types. In large part because even getting an academic job is a kind of dream; it is a hard line of work to penetrate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2022, 12:15 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,193 posts, read 107,809,412 times
Reputation: 116092
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Even then, what does it matter? To paraphrase my dad, most professors I've ever encountered struck me as "the kinds of people who voted for Obama." So what? They can still do their jobs.

Yes, not as many conservatives among them, but to me it seems generally because they are not attracted to that line of work. When I was in grad school there were some conservatives, but literally all of them went into other fields than academia. The only ones that persisted in academia were the progressive dreamer types. In large part because even getting an academic job is a kind of dream; it is a hard line of work to penetrate.
I'm wondering how any students would know which of their grad school profs were liberal or conservative. Political affiliation and values of that affiliation isn't relevant to most topics being taught. In undergrad as well, we had no idea what the profs' political leanings were, and we didn't care. We were there to learn the details of whatever topic was being taught. Politics is irrelevant to science, languages and linguistics, music, STEM, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-29-2022, 02:15 PM
 
12,836 posts, read 9,033,724 times
Reputation: 34894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I'm wondering how any students would know which of their grad school profs were liberal or conservative. Political affiliation and values of that affiliation isn't relevant to most topics being taught. In undergrad as well, we had no idea what the profs' political leanings were, and we didn't care. We were there to learn the details of whatever topic was being taught. Politics is irrelevant to science, languages and linguistics, music, STEM, etc.
The problem is often two fold, first, in what is taught vs what is left out. There can be a political message in the material assigned to read, the questions asked, even the "correct" vs "incorrect" answers. And second, while most teachers/professors may not overtly spread their politics, there certainly are ones who do. Just a couple of examples, would be one like my freshman history prof who made his politics known and we learned quickly which answers would be "right" and which would be "wrong." My kids had some lit and history teachers the same way.

What makes this so hard is it doesn't have to be big and overt. Rather a constant gentle push, just below the surface, over the time kids are in school, will have a major influence by the time they turn 18. Gives the school system plausible deniability by it subtlety.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2022, 04:41 AM
 
4,621 posts, read 2,219,465 times
Reputation: 3952
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Yes. Wish I knew why. Jeaslously? Envy? The less you know, the more loudly you know it?

But it's been around since before I went to college. I even sensed it in high school. This country has a huge animosity toward education, justified by a lot of myths that don't match reality.

Fred and Barney graduate together. Fred goes to work "down at the plant." Barney goes to college with some part time work. Four years later Fred has experience; Barney has an education. Four years after that, Fred still has experience; Barney has both.
If say there is animosity toward people who don't go to university. Education doesn't mean as much as it used to and I think this is more about the availability of information.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2022, 06:14 AM
 
899 posts, read 670,073 times
Reputation: 2415
I think there are a couple other important aspects to this, however: "If you college-educated people are so smart, why aren't your solutions working?" and "We've been fooled too long into listening to you." I hope it won't be too political to say it, but when many people prefer the medical advice of a politician over the leading doctor (Trump, Fauci) I don't care what your political stripe is, you can see education has been tremendously devalued.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2022, 07:23 AM
 
12,836 posts, read 9,033,724 times
Reputation: 34894
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILTXwhatnext View Post
I think there are a couple other important aspects to this, however: "If you college-educated people are so smart, why aren't your solutions working?" and "We've been fooled too long into listening to you." I hope it won't be too political to say it, but when many people prefer the medical advice of a politician over the leading doctor (Trump, Fauci) I don't care what your political stripe is, you can see education has been tremendously devalued.
Just wanted to add a though, and like you, hope this won't be too political for the forum. The reason I bring this up is it hits on something that has bothered me since COVID first hit and does tie into this whole education question. Of the two you listed, Fauci is the actual politician.

What bothers me about Fauci is he's presented as the nation's premier expert. He may have been at one time. But I've been in the Federal Government too long and worked with many "Faucis." To get and play at that level, they have to be a politician. The first time he got on TV and spoke, I said, "Oh God, please don't let this man be the "face" of COVID to the public. There will be zero trust in what he says." He has the style and mannerisms of the career senior execs who have spent decades in the politics of DC.

I'd have much preferred someone with the mannerisms and public persona like Neil DeGrasse Tyson (yes, I know he's not an MD but an astrophysicist, but he comes across so much better) or even C Everette Koop. Or heck, even good GP doctor. At a time we needed Marcus Welby to inspire trust and calm, we got a political doctor playing hero on the stage.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2022, 08:29 AM
 
19,777 posts, read 18,060,308 times
Reputation: 17262
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Just wanted to add a though, and like you, hope this won't be too political for the forum. The reason I bring this up is it hits on something that has bothered me since COVID first hit and does tie into this whole education question. Of the two you listed, Fauci is the actual politician.

What bothers me about Fauci is he's presented as the nation's premier expert. He may have been at one time. But I've been in the Federal Government too long and worked with many "Faucis." To get and play at that level, they have to be a politician. The first time he got on TV and spoke, I said, "Oh God, please don't let this man be the "face" of COVID to the public. There will be zero trust in what he says." He has the style and mannerisms of the career senior execs who have spent decades in the politics of DC.

I'd have much preferred someone with the mannerisms and public persona like Neil DeGrasse Tyson (yes, I know he's not an MD but an astrophysicist, but he comes across so much better) or even C Everette Koop. Or heck, even good GP doctor. At a time we needed Marcus Welby to inspire trust and calm, we got a political doctor playing hero on the stage.

IMO this is the guy who should have been the covid domo. He's a legit expert. He called 600,000 or more deaths when the death toll was about 10.

https://twin-cities.umn.edu/news-eve...hael-osterholm
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2022, 09:23 AM
 
7,588 posts, read 4,157,568 times
Reputation: 6946
Antipathy towards the college-educated has been there at least since the 80s in my hometown. I think I can pinpoint why some may feel distrust and dislike towards a college-educated person. Take for example the word "ain't", which an educated person would say is not a word, and they would be accurate when talking about English conventions. But if the listener understood what is meant, why can't it be used? That is where the feelings of dislike start to grow. "It's not right" is the usual response, but English conventions are not right or wrong. They are preferences agreed upon by the people who use the language. And they can change. Declaring a position right and the other wrong when preferences are being discussed is where distrust starts to form.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-30-2022, 09:55 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,694 posts, read 58,012,579 times
Reputation: 46171
With companies and governments dropping degree requirements for employees, it should free up some of the Antipathy Toward College Educated.

There were several reasons for requiring a degree, it used to be a screening tool, in hopes college educated would be more qualified and potentially require less training and oversight. Unfortunately, the quality of grad has significantly eroded and you can no longer expect a college grad new hire to be able to count, or write. (and especially to THINK). Some positions require certification and licensing, and some of that is tied to mandatory college degrees. Testing should be adequate, but, again... the expectation WAS that graduates had reached a level of competency, so some testing was abolished in lieu of degree. (That can bite you as an employer, but is Easy achievement for and unqualified applicant.

Some colleges have sued government agencies for dropping degee requirement. (declining enrollments / credibility)
The EDU system brought this upon themselves.

Last edited by StealthRabbit; 10-30-2022 at 10:21 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top