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Old 10-20-2022, 01:46 PM
 
19,777 posts, read 18,064,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babe_Ruth View Post
These are cherry picked statistics, without any context. But I'm going to speculate on the why? of these cherry picked stats..
It has nothing to do with being "less informed", that is a smug assumption (which will lead to my broader point). Everyone in 2022 has been taught about the injury-prevention benefit of wearing a seatbelt.. that's not a realistic guess.

To the broader point of why non-college educated may engage in these two cherry-picked risks (smoking more & less seat belt usage). Smoking may be smugly viewed as a trashy, blur collar habit, so it's an elitism that compels college-educated/white collar to smoke tobacco less, not greater "information". Blacks also have higher smoking rates than Whites. Will you categorically condemn Blacks as more ignorant than Whites ??

Seat belt usage may have to do with being less neurotically fearful. Maybe blue collar workers who have dangerous jobs, feel less afraid driving down the street to a convenience store. Perhaps an underwater welder (who routinely faces danger) isn't as frightened of a fender-bender as a highly credentialed white collar worker, sitting in office all day. There are different assumptions we can all glean from cherry-picked stats. Mine don't essentially assume the ignorance of non college-educated. peace

Smug is casting off high confidence data as somehow corrupt because you don't like the conclusions.
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Old 10-20-2022, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
14,458 posts, read 12,090,641 times
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I think there is a real, growing realization that college is all too often not a place where people learn good life skills, it's where common sense goes to die, replaced by woke nonsense.

Now... there are exceptions... engineering and medicine are still fields where college makes you smarter, mostly

Most of the liberal arts degrees now, however, only serve to make people less functional in society, imho.

And at the same time, I think thanks to Mike Rowe and others, the trades and trade schools have been revived and shown to be more valid and practical pathways for many young people. This is a good thing!

Maybe in time the colleges will start teaching more useful skills again. But we hopefully will be better for having stronger trades and many choosing NOT to get useless four year degrees just to say we did.
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Old 10-20-2022, 02:06 PM
 
3,048 posts, read 1,150,651 times
Reputation: 3718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
I think there is a real, growing realization that college is all too often not a place where people learn good life skills, it's where common sense goes to die, replaced by woke nonsense.

Now... there are exceptions... engineering and medicine are still fields where college makes you smarter, mostly

Most of the liberal arts degrees now, however, only serve to make people less functional in society, imho.

And at the same time, I think thanks to Mike Rowe and others, the trades and trade schools have been revived and shown to be more valid and practical pathways for many young people. This is a good thing!

Maybe in time the colleges will start teaching more useful skills again. But we hopefully will be better for having stronger trades and many choosing NOT to get useless four year degrees just to say we did.
When people wax on about the earning potential of the trades, welding in particular, I have to laugh because it appears that many people do not understand that high-earning welders have degrees, at least an Associate's degree, and the truly high earners often have a Master's degree in welding engineering.
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Old 10-20-2022, 02:32 PM
 
10,990 posts, read 6,860,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Yes. Wish I knew why. Jealousy? Envy? The less you know, the more loudly you know it?

But it's been around since before I went to college. I even sensed it in high school. This country has a huge animosity toward education, justified by a lot of myths that don't match reality.

Fred and Barney graduate together. Fred goes to work "down at the plant." Barney goes to college with some part time work. Four years later Fred has experience; Barney has an education. Four years after that, Fred still has experience; Barney has both.
This. Back when I went to college (70's) I worked while attending classes. I didn't have "liberal smoke blown up my a*s" by some "liberal professor caught in their liberal bubble."

In my mind all the hatred accelerated with 44 (a lot of it being racism as well as anti-elitism), and to a certain extent with Clinton (a Rhodes scholar). People with an education tend to be more curious and consider differing opinions, cultures, etc. People who've only worked usually band together and loudly protest, people who've done both tend to expand their horizons more. I have a relative who is extremely bright who started working with a bunch of blue collar people. Pretty soon and many years later, thinks exactly like them. That's all I'm going to say about that.

After college, I started working and noticed that I had to dumb down my vocabulary because people though I was being arrogant, like I was better than them. That was back in the 70's. I think to a certain extent it's always been that way. But it's brutal now. Too many people on both sides think they know everything. Thankfully they don't all think that way.
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Old 10-20-2022, 02:38 PM
 
1,494 posts, read 1,671,074 times
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I think that people should look up what liberal arts degrees actually are before complaining about them. Political aggressors have made both "liberal" and "arts" into derogatory terms that they influence people to look down on, so people seem to assume that the liberal arts are some fluffy nonsense rather than the clear majority of every well rounded education.
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Old 10-20-2022, 02:48 PM
 
10,990 posts, read 6,860,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmition View Post
I think that people should look up what liberal arts degrees actually are before complaining about them. Political aggressors have made both "liberal" and "arts" into derogatory terms that they influence people to look down on, so people seem to assume that the liberal arts are some fluffy nonsense rather than the clear majority of every well rounded education.
Absolutely! It used to be that a liberal arts degree was respected and even considered very desirable. Students got a chance to learn history, anthropology, philosophy, art, theater etc. and participate in physical education, sports (games), dorm life, etc. "What a terrible, terrible thing." It was considered something for a young person to do to learn about life and expand their horizons.

Oh, but working in factory or a machine shop is way better than that. Not being a snob, it's just boring compared to the other.

I met a young woman recently who is getting a degree in Hospitality from that ROLL TIDE place - Alabama. She is a resident assistant at her dorm, and she is getting a true college experience. She's a fortunate young woman. I've met other young people who are attending Auburn and other universities. Same deal.
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Old 10-20-2022, 03:04 PM
 
1,494 posts, read 1,671,074 times
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Best not to forget that a hefty amount of math, science, and English are also required for a liberal science degree.

A degree really demonstrates that the person is able to put in the effort to follow instructions, remember important details, work independently, and persistently follow through on tasks. The knowledge they gain while doing this is useful if they go into a related field, but any degree shows that the person has qualities useful to an employer even in an unrelated field. It doesn't guarantee that they will be better than a non-degreed person, but you get a lot more advance confidence in them than someone with just a high school diploma.
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Old 10-20-2022, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
14,458 posts, read 12,090,641 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1065 View Post
When people wax on about the earning potential of the trades, welding in particular, I have to laugh because it appears that many people do not understand that high-earning welders have degrees, at least an Associate's degree, and the truly high earners often have a Master's degree in welding engineering.

OK At least that sounds like a valuable degree.

Many degrees today don't seem to have a lot of actual value. Some may actually be a negative. That was my point. That's why the perception may be changing.
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Old 10-20-2022, 03:09 PM
 
3,048 posts, read 1,150,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
OK At least that sounds like a valuable degree.

Many degrees today don't seem to have a lot of actual value. Some may actually be a negative. That was my point.
This might interest you. My family has an acquaintance who is a Realtor making a high six-figure annual income. She has a Bachelor's in Economics and a Master's in Marketing. I don't think she regrets her education.
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Old 10-20-2022, 03:11 PM
 
10,990 posts, read 6,860,952 times
Reputation: 17985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmition View Post
Best not to forget that a hefty amount of math, science, and English are also required for a liberal science degree.

A degree really demonstrates that the person is able to put in the effort to follow instructions, remember important details, work independently, and persistently follow through on tasks. The knowledge they gain while doing this is useful if they go into a related field, but any degree shows that the person has qualities useful to an employer even in an unrelated field. It doesn't guarantee that they will be better than a non-degreed person, but you get a lot more advance confidence in them than someone with just a high school diploma.
Again, absolutely.
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