If I were king of education...

[lhpartridge]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

Good. The challenge will be to get teachers to change teaching behaviors based on research and best practices.

Getting the teachers to change is only half the battle. A third perhaps, if you consider both the district-level and state-level bureaucracies. And that's not even considering the parents and the community.

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

Good. The challenge will be to get teachers to change teaching behaviors based on research and best practices.

Teachers would be happy to change teaching behaviors. Currently, they teach in the manner required to pass a state mandated test, or based on state mandated teaching methods.

[lhpartridge]

Originally Posted by tnff

Would you mind going a bit deeper into what you see the pros/cons or differences between skills-based vs aptitude-based? I can see some distinctions but I'm not sure that what I'm envisioning is what you're discussing. Would love to hear more.

Honestly, the phrase just leapt into my mind as I was writing. (This turned out too long. Sorry.)

What I mean is to assess the children based on what they know and can do, rather than on what their potential is. This means that overachievers would be able to move ahead, while those who took longer to learn, whether by nature or inclination, would move at a slower pace.

At the end of elementary school, an exit exam would help determine the placement in middle school with the decision based on numerous variables including the student's age, future plans, interests, parental input, feedback from teachers and their records, as well as the test data. End yearly testing except perhaps at the end of third grade and put the onus on the students to meet the standards.

As I said earlier, middle school should be completely revamped. If skills-based tracking were in place, then students who had excelled in elementary school would be ready for a pre-AP track. I think the Regents classes in New York may have been similar. I don't know how prep schools do middle school, but the American tweenager often tastes thin soup at school for a few years.

For students at the low end of achievement, hard questions must be asked and answered. At this age, a young person is beginning to be aware of life outside the home and how choices and their consequences will affect how their own lives will unfold. Too many kids are warehoused at each level until they age out, often because school ratings are overly reliant on the scores from these underachievers. They and their parents need to have a come-to-Jesus moment about what a life of low achievement means to them and their families.

In any case, kids who are unprepared for middle school need to have an individual counseling session to plan to catch up before high school or to prepare for a non-academic secondary experience. Fortunately, Career and Technical Education is the phoenix that has arisen from the ashes of Vo-Tech, and it is becoming more acceptable for "smart" kids to go into those fields. Students who are developing behind the curve could follow a slower timeline, but with time to catch up, would be ready for regular middle school in another year.

Another round of exit exams for middle school with similar supports would help students and their parents plan for high school and beyond. Students who are on track for high school would remain in what would be an accelerated version of the current middle school, which would include the content of the first two years of high school. High school should include much of the content associated with the first year of college. Students who choose CTE would still be eligible to attend college if they chose. Students who are advanced can take dual-placement or AP courses or leave high school early to begin college.

The problems of colleges and universities accepting applicants who clearly need remediation to achieve at the institutions' normative levels deserve their own thread. I will not address them here.

At each level, the focus would be on the individual children and which track best suited their needs based on their knowledge and skills, not their ability. The onus should be put on the students to perform in order to have more choices about their future.

Ideally, if the changes I outlined above were enacted, it would only take one 13-year cohort to pass through before the positive benefits would really begin to make a huge difference. It would be expensive, but much more rewarding on both a human level and a societal level. A society that actualizes its citizens is more likely to thrive and not just survive. Happy citizens make a productive country. Having a strong command of the knowledge and skills provided by a quality education makes it more likely that citizens will be happy. It's a win-win situation that just goes to demonstrate that you get what you pay for. And as my dad taught me, if you don't, you speak up.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by GSPNative

Then limit the programs offered in open-enrollment schools to be STEM, business, medical, etc. fields.

Yes, if someone can’t fill out an admissions form, that indicates that the person may not fare too well in school. But I’m told that non-Asian people of color are victims in the college admissions process, dissuaded from applying by confusing financial aid forms, tests (which favor wealthier people who can pay for test prep courses), etc. Open-enrollment schools would be for these types of students, who otherwise wouldn’t attend college.

Sure, they may need remedial coursework. That can be done once they’re in.

I would expect that a lot of students in open-enrollment schools wouldn’t graduate and wouldn’t do well. But some college education is better than none, particularly when there are no barriers to entry and no costs for the student.

That's an interesting set of points, I'll add more later. Right now "some" college is probably worse than none as the some college cadres tend to have significant debt problems.


Remedial coursework is very expensive in terms of time, talent and treasure.

[GSPNative]

Originally Posted by EDS_

That's an interesting set of points, I'll add more later. Right now "some" college is probably worse than none as the some college cadres tend to have significant debt problems.


Remedial coursework is very expensive in terms of time, talent and treasure.

You are correct.

The open-enrollment schools I’m proposing would have zero tuition and students could work while taking a light course load.

[tnff]

Originally Posted by lhpartridge

Honestly, the phrase just leapt into my mind as I was writing. (This turned out too long. Sorry.)

What I mean is to assess the children based on what they know and can do, rather than on what their potential is. This means that overachievers would be able to move ahead, while those who took longer to learn, whether by nature or inclination, would move at a slower pace.
...

Thank you for the added explanation. That's an interesting proposal. While there may be some social/emotional objections, it would be intriguing to see has such a proposal could be implemented. I'm not sure that it would be too costly since it seems a lot of the needed resources might be in place, just need to be redirected.

Thank you.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by WRM20

Teachers would be happy to change teaching behaviors. Currently, they teach in the manner required to pass a state mandated test, or based on state mandated teaching methods.

I never found that to be true.

The very thought of having to go to an in-service elicited intense moaning and groaning even before they knew the topic...and even though it was a free teacher workday. In other words, they didn't want to learn either.

[YorktownGal]

Originally Posted by EDS_

FWIIW Italy more or less proves the point that nationwide "free/almost free" college is a horrible idea. The yield is way too many students with degrees in areas employers do not value.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...tion-in-italy/
https://qz.com/145217/its-harder-to-...an-without-one

Defending Italy - the second article sited was from 2013 during the Great Recession which also hit Europe.

As you mentioned above, the article clearly states that Italy has too many liberal arts degrees and not enough stem degrees.

Thirdly, there is tracking in Italy. Not everyone is allowed to attend college.

Originally Posted by GSPNative

Yes, if someone can’t fill out an admissions form, that indicates that the person may not fare too well in school. But I’m told that non-Asian people of color are victims in the college admissions process, dissuaded from applying by confusing financial aid forms, tests (which favor wealthier people who can pay for test prep courses), etc. Open-enrollment schools would be for these types of students, who otherwise wouldn’t attend college.

Financial aid forms are not confusing. All you need is your income tax return which provides all the needed information.

Yes, wealthier student can pay for test prep. My kids never had a test prep other than reviewing an SAT or GRE prep book. The book was $25. It's not like the test prep is giving answers to the SAT/GRE, it's only exams of questions from previous tests.

[gomifireballkid]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

I never found that to be true.

The very thought of having to go to an in-service elicited intense moaning and groaning even before they knew the topic...and even though it was a free teacher workday. In other words, they didn't want to learn either.

I couldn't agree more with the first part. At my last, larger school, any inservice was viewed as a waste of time by half of the staff, regardless the topic. Unfortunately, much like a stopped clock, the malcontents were correct every now and then because the district would foist the latest education fad on us or the latest woo-woo ("traauma-informed care"/restorative justice circles) for which there is little or no evidence. District leaders and school administrators would do well to educate themselves about the scientific method to better sort the wheat from the chaff.

Actually, I couldn't agree more about the second part, too. I have zero patience with other teachers who want to talk, be on their phones, or grade papers during inservices. Don't expect your kids to listen or pay attention in your classroom if you are unwilling to do the same.