Are Gen Eds in college useful or just a drag on finishing? (counselor, med school)

[RJ312]

Drag on finishing. I've used very little of what I learned in Gen Ed classes for my bachelor's degree in my post bachelor's degree life. There's a case that the writing skills that I picked up from efforts in Gen Ed classes were useful, but that's about it.

[tnff]

Originally Posted by mitsguy2001

True, since colleges want the doormats, not the people like myself who expect to be rewarded for their efforts and achievements.

Why would colleges want doormats? That was not my experience, not that of my kids or my friends.

Originally Posted by mitsguy2001

I got an easy A in Physics 3 and Calc 3 with zero effort in either class. So either they were easy, or the AP classes sufficiently prepared me.

I think my college intentionally assigned the hard professors to the weedout classes and the easy professors to the next level classes. I was seemingly one of the first to AP out of the weedout classes.

No, for the tuition we are paying, we deserve professors who teach, not professors who work against us.

Teach, but not spoonfeed. One of the key skills is what to do when things aren't easy.

[mitsguy2001]

Originally Posted by tnff

Why would colleges want doormats? That was not my experience, not that of my kids or my friends.

For whatever reason, the college I attended clearly wanted doormats. They probably felt, rightly or wrongly, that those who work long hours for low pay and never question authority are the ones who get ahead in the workplace.

Teach, but not spoonfeed. One of the key skills is what to do when things aren't easy.

Agree, but what the weed-out professors do is not teaching.

[RamenAddict]

Originally Posted by villageidiot1

My son would agree with your first statement. I think his issue was that he had taken AP biology his junior year. So he had not taken biology for a year and a half, while his BIO 2 classmates had just take a very rigorous biology course. He got a C in the BIO 2 course, which was his only C in college.

He had no criticism of his AP Biology class in HS. OTOH, his AP government teacher did not cover the required material for the AP Government exam. She fell behind in covering the material and rushed through the last couple months. That was the only 4 he received on the 7 AP exams he took.

I’m 45 and this was a Thing when I was in school too. You could take AP and pass into honors science courses, but couldn’t totally pass out of them.

[tnff]

Originally Posted by mitsguy2001

For whatever reason, the college I attended clearly wanted doormats. They probably felt, rightly or wrongly, that those who work long hours for low pay and never question authority are the ones who get ahead in the workplace.



Agree, but what the weed-out professors do is not teaching.

My first year weed out professor was the best professor I ever had. Dressed like you'd expect a professor to dress. Called everyone Mr and Ms rather than first names. Knew that textbook inside and out. If you asked him about a problem he say "Oh, that's example such and such" and proceed to write the problem out from memory on the board. His homework and exams were killer however. If you passed his exams, you knew the material thoroughly.

Best part was, if you survived the first two years and came back as an upper division physics student, he went from Mr/Ms to first name because you were now a colleague. He might be a PhD and you still a student, but he treated you like a colleague.

You had such a different and poor set of professors that I'd love to know what college you attended that wanted doormats instead of self-starting professionals. That is so different I can't fathom it.

[mitsguy2001]

Originally Posted by tnff

My first year weed out professor was the best professor I ever had. Dressed like you'd expect a professor to dress. Called everyone Mr and Ms rather than first names. Knew that textbook inside and out. If you asked him about a problem he say "Oh, that's example such and such" and proceed to write the problem out from memory on the board. His homework and exams were killer however. If you passed his exams, you knew the material thoroughly.

Best part was, if you survived the first two years and came back as an upper division physics student, he went from Mr/Ms to first name because you were now a colleague. He might be a PhD and you still a student, but he treated you like a colleague.

You had such a different and poor set of professors that I'd love to know what college you attended that wanted doormats instead of self-starting professionals. That is so different I can't fathom it.

I think the difference is that you were a physics major, so you were being groomed for an academic or research career. I was a civil engineering major, so we were being groomed to be a rank and file employee at an engineering firm who focused on hiring whatever employee would work the longest hours for the least money.

[mitsguy2001]

Originally Posted by tnff

I can see it in interviews and new hires. Those who came through tougher programs don't need to be handheld in the workplace. You can give them general direction and let them go. Those who didn't need specific direction constantly. In fact, we can see early in their careers the ones with the self-starting drive and confidence to take the lead and others, who didn't come through those programs just naturally fall into following.

And what is wrong with being a follower? Every leader needs followers to follow them. If everybody was a leader, then the leaders would have nobody to lead, and we'd have a serious problem.

[RamenAddict]

Originally Posted by mitsguy2001

And what is wrong with being a follower? Every leader needs followers to follow them. If everybody was a leader, then the leaders would have nobody to lead, and we'd have a serious problem.

Within any work environment, the ideal is to have employees who can do their job independently without having to ask a supervisor before they do every menial task. Hopefully at some point the employee will gain enough knowledge to ultimately supervise others in doing the task or be a subject matter expert. A good leader also knows how to delegate, and you need people who are competent and skilled to be able to do that.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by mitsguy2001

Agree with all that. I was just using math as an example. If there is any subject that you can't do at a high school level, then you don't belong in college.

Many colleges that are held in high esteem, would not agree with you. There are engineering students who cannot write at a 12th grade level. Or, at a 10th.

I am not a fan of General Education Classes. However, everyone who is a university graduate should be able to read, write, and speak grammatically.

Higher mathematics are for those interested in that and who plan to use it. At the same time, not all stem majors must be artists or orators.

[tnff]

Originally Posted by mitsguy2001

I think the difference is that you were a physics major, so you were being groomed for an academic or research career. I was a civil engineering major, so we were being groomed to be a rank and file employee at an engineering firm who focused on hiring whatever employee would work the longest hours for the least money.

I wasn't trained for academia; rather I was trained to apply the principles of physics to any job. Most recent data for physics BS grads is only 24% go into an academic field and 59% go into private sector work.

Just looking at engineering degrees, our Georgia Tech engineering grads as a couple steps ahead of Somewhere Else State Tech engineering grads in the same field of engineering. The GT grads I can give them a general idea of a problem and watch them go. Somewhere Else State Tech I have to give them step 1 and step 2 and so on.

Originally Posted by mitsguy2001

And what is wrong with being a follower? Every leader needs followers to follow them. If everybody was a leader, then the leaders would have nobody to lead, and we'd have a serious problem.

RamenAddict gives an outstanding answer to this question. He's spot on -- we're looking for employees who don't have to be hand held and spoon fed.

Originally Posted by RamenAddict

Within any work environment, the ideal is to have employees who can do their job independently without having to ask a supervisor before they do every menial task. Hopefully at some point the employee will gain enough knowledge to ultimately supervise others in doing the task or be a subject matter expert. A good leader also knows how to delegate, and you need people who are competent and skilled to be able to do that.