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Old 11-13-2022, 02:13 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
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Why is it that it seems that the groups that want to skip reading and writing courses in college are almost always engineers and, to a lesser extent, people in Business Administration?
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Old 11-13-2022, 02:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TexasLawyer2000 View Post
Math is required for all majors because you need math to do research. Especially statistics, which is based on calculus, linear algebra and probability.

English is required because you need to be able read, interpret, add your own findings as you put together your research.

Not all high schools are the same so there's no way to guarantee that those who completed high school have the level of math and english required to succeed in a college career. That being said, a high school student can take AP exams to test out of having to take these classes in college.
I tend to agree with you overarching point(s). That said most college students never sniff a calculus based statistics class.
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Old 11-14-2022, 09:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Why is it that it seems that the groups that want to skip reading and writing courses in college are almost always engineers and, to a lesser extent, people in Business Administration?
That is because the type of reading and writing that schools tend to teach tends to be the type of reading and writing expected of liberal arts majors, not the type expected of engineers. I did take a technical writing class in college, and it was one of the most useful classes I took, even though the professor was a jerk.
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:00 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
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Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
That is because the type of reading and writing that schools tend to teach tends to be the type of reading and writing expected of liberal arts majors, not the type expected of engineers. I did take a technical writing class in college, and it was one of the most useful classes I took, even though the professor was a jerk.
And you have to have the basics. Technical writing is a specialty.
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:02 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
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Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
That is because the type of reading and writing that schools tend to teach tends to be the type of reading and writing expected of liberal arts majors, not the type expected of engineers. I did take a technical writing class in college, and it was one of the most useful classes I took, even though the professor was a jerk.
And you have to have the basics. Technical writing is a specialty. And you really didn't answer the question.
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:08 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
I think some are useful- like writing requirements or basic math. To some extent, I think foreign language requirements also help you learn your own language better. That said, it seems like some require more than others. I also think that general education courses help people just generally learn how to learn and become more independent.

If there is one thing managers don’t like, it is people who need their hands held. By taking a variety of types of classes, you may not know the answers, but you will have a better idea of how to find them.
The bolded is supposed to be covered in Highschool. In fact, if you look at how schooling is handled in Europe, our Gen Ed req's are mostly Highschool work; college-bound students in Europe take a lot of that stuff in their 13th year of schooling to qualify for college, in addition to the more extensive coursework they already had in 9th through 12th grade.

But the other purpose of the Gen Ed req's in the US, aside from providing a "well-rounded" education, is to expose students to a wide variety of disciplines so they can decide on a career field. Many students enter college (still, even in 2022) not knowing what they want to major in. In a large university, students can discover fields they never knew existed, and that discovery can create a spark of interest leading to a career path for them.
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
And you have to have the basics. Technical writing is a specialty. And you really didn't answer the question.
Yes I did answer your question. I said that engineers are the most opposed to school reading and writing classes, because school reading and writing classes are focused on the type of writing that liberal arts people do, not the type of reading and writing that engineers do.

As I mentioned, I took a technical writing class, and the professor was a jerk, even though the class was extremely valuable (so I'm able to separate his teaching ability and the material taught from his personality). Since he was from the writing department, he enjoyed bashing engineers. Perhaps another reason why engineers dislike reading / writing classes is because even if they area teaching technical writing, they are taught by liberal arts people who enjoy bashing STEM people. Why did he think that bashing the people taking the class was a good idea? Would liberal arts people enjoy being taught by STEM people who bash liberal arts people? Doubt it.
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Old 11-14-2022, 10:13 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Why is it that it seems that the groups that want to skip reading and writing courses in college are almost always engineers and, to a lesser extent, people in Business Administration?
Maybe because those are the people you're running into and talking to, or interacting with on forums? There are plenty of people, most of them non-engineers or future business majors, who already had their fill of literature in HS, and see no point in slogging through more of the same in college. Some people already learned to write well in HS, and don't need further instruction, unless they're planning to go into writing as a career. Requiring entering freshmen to take a lit/writing course "just because" is a waste of such students' time, and is basically remedial work. They should be able to test out of it.

Maybe that's what AP classes are for in HS. I don't know if students who took AP English classes in HS are exempt from the lit/writing requirement in college or not.
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Old 11-14-2022, 11:11 AM
 
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I would say that Gen Eds, as currently implemented, are more of a drag on finishing. If you are in a "hard" major, such as most engineering majors, especially if you need a certain GPA to keep a scholarship, you are forced to take easy gen eds that don't require a lot of time outside of class. Taking a middle school level music class as a STEM major does not give you a "well rounded education". It just becomes another box to check. And it makes it harder to get another degree if you want to change careers later in life. Perhaps Gen Eds should be graded pass / fail so that students could take more risks with them and obtain more of a well-rounded education without risking their GPA.
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Old 11-14-2022, 11:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
If we're talking practicality for a career, then I think the barrier of entry to most entry level jobs should be a 2 year associates. Tops.

Even engineering.

Let's just say by age 17 you've decided you want to major in Civil Engineering but not only that, but want to be a Geotechnical Engineer. 2 years easy.

Going past general reqs, a lot of that Calc? Totally useless.

Of course, there's a few issues here.

Most kids don't know what they want to do. Just using engineering as an example. Most kids don't know what type of engineering they want to do. And even when they do decide, it's all pretty arbitrary and sometimes just based on unfounded ideas of inflated salaries.

Colleges are a business like everything else, and a lot of people would lose jobs, some very cushy ones, if that happened. So you better believe they'll fight to keep things the way they are. Or ... do you want my other thoughts on how to make society and work more productive and fulfilling to the average person. Didn't think so.

The traditional college experience of going somewhere for 4 years is still alive, mostly for those with more wealth, but ... it is. And that would take that away somewhat.
Maybe a better idea would be for students to work for 2 years after high school in their intended career, and then 2 years of college after that?
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