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Old 11-15-2022, 04:06 AM
 
1,276 posts, read 568,236 times
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With the right changes, a bachelor's degree could probably be shortened to 3 years.

1. Colleges need to figure out what they're hoping students gain from the core classes. Is a full semester needed for the exposure, or could courses be done in half-semester units? Alternatively, could colleges instead emphasize elective courses that may actually interest the student, as long as they check boxes for certain skills or topics? Sure, there is some value in the exposure to other topics, but dedicating a whole semester to "The Caribbean Experience in Literature" didn't add a whole lot to my degree.
2. High schools need to Beef up their college preparation. Freshman-level math is usually required because the student wasn't prepared enough by high school or didn't know enough about taking advantage of predatory programs or exams. Ideally, I would like to see high schools move back toward educational tracks for senior year. Students should have the option to spend their senior years on a track for college prep, trade school prep, or some sort of life skills/work prep. Most states already have college prep courses or trade options, but formalizing them into a whole-year program would probably go a long way toward fixing the college problems in the US by taking away the stigma of not attending a four-year college.
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Old 11-15-2022, 04:25 AM
 
Location: a little corner of a very big universe
867 posts, read 725,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
The technical writing professor that I had said that the Dewey Decimal System is racist and sexist!

I don't want to derail the conversation, but I thought this article from the highly respected School Library Journal might provide an explanation for a detail others might consider bizarre:



https://www.slj.com/story/move-over-...decimal-system


Quote:
But a growing number of school and youth librarians are moving to dismantle the Dewey Decimal Classification system—the worldwide cataloging and organizational system for libraries devised by pioneer Melvil Dewey in 1873 and first published in 1876. Not only is the Dewey Decimal System outdated, they say, but many of Dewey’s approaches to categorizing books were racist and sexist. For instance, Black history is not part of American history; “women’s work” is a separate category from jobs; non-Christian religious holidays are situated with mythology and religion; and LGBTQ+ works were once shelved under “perversion” or “neurological disorders” before landing in the “sexual orientation” category.
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Old 11-15-2022, 04:33 AM
 
8,302 posts, read 3,821,773 times
Reputation: 5919
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPC324 View Post
With the right changes, a bachelor's degree could probably be shortened to 3 years.

1. Colleges need to figure out what they're hoping students gain from the core classes. Is a full semester needed for the exposure, or could courses be done in half-semester units? Alternatively, could colleges instead emphasize elective courses that may actually interest the student, as long as they check boxes for certain skills or topics? Sure, there is some value in the exposure to other topics, but dedicating a whole semester to "The Caribbean Experience in Literature" didn't add a whole lot to my degree.
2. High schools need to Beef up their college preparation. Freshman-level math is usually required because the student wasn't prepared enough by high school or didn't know enough about taking advantage of predatory programs or exams. Ideally, I would like to see high schools move back toward educational tracks for senior year. Students should have the option to spend their senior years on a track for college prep, trade school prep, or some sort of life skills/work prep. Most states already have college prep courses or trade options, but formalizing them into a whole-year program would probably go a long way toward fixing the college problems in the US by taking away the stigma of not attending a four-year college.

Regarding your first point:

There's typically plenty of electives available in a core curriculum. Looking at Harvard, you need (12 courses total):

2 Language courses
1-2 Expository Writing courses
1 Quantitative Reasoning w/ Data course
7-8 elective courses from the following areas:
  • Aesthetics & Culture
  • Ethics & Civics
  • Histories, Societies, Individuals
  • Science & Technology in Society
  • Arts & Humanities
  • Social Sciences
  • Science & Engineering and Applied Science

Regarding your second point:

College Prep high schools already exist. They are often referred to as simply "Prep School". People (parents) just need to be more informed about them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colleg...aratory_school
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Old 11-15-2022, 07:28 AM
 
6,985 posts, read 7,058,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaic View Post
I don't want to derail the conversation, but I thought this article from the highly respected School Library Journal might provide an explanation for a detail others might consider bizarre:



https://www.slj.com/story/move-over-...decimal-system
But the point that people often miss is that the system is not inherently racist or sexist. It was developed a long time ago, and our society back then was very different, and was more racist and sexist, and the system reflected society. Rather than dropping the whole system, perhaps some changes should be made to better reflect current society. You said, for example, that LGBTQ+ works have already been reclassified under sexual orientation. Perhaps the same can be done with other categories that you mention. Black history can be merged with American history. Women's work can be merged with jobs. All religious holidays, Christian or not, can be put in a common section.

Would you agree that my professor was incorrect in saying that no library has used the Dewey Decimal system in the past 100 years (he said this in late 1999)? Would you say that I am correct that, even today, public libraries tend to use the Dewey Decimal System, and academic libraries tend to use the Library of Congress System? Or am I wrong?

Plus keep in mind that this professor basically slandered an employee of the university that he worked for.

Also, this professor required us to buy a book that he wrote, it had to be a new copy, and we had to prove to him that we bought it new, but we literally never used the book for his class, not even once.
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Old 11-15-2022, 07:43 AM
 
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When I went through high school I was taught that Dewey was most used by schools and small libraries but Library of Congress was used more be large libraries because it allowed a better breakout into easier to locate sections whereas Dewey could have several stacks all with the same number. Also that more people were familiar with Dewey because it was the one taught in school.

Don't know if those are current; simply what I was taught in high school.
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Old 11-15-2022, 08:18 AM
 
Location: a little corner of a very big universe
867 posts, read 725,847 times
Reputation: 2647
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
But the point that people often miss is that the system is not inherently racist or sexist. It was developed a long time ago, and our society back then was very different, and was more racist and sexist, and the system reflected society. Rather than dropping the whole system, perhaps some changes should be made to better reflect current society. You said, for example, that LGBTQ+ works have already been reclassified under sexual orientation. Perhaps the same can be done with other categories that you mention. Black history can be merged with American history. Women's work can be merged with jobs. All religious holidays, Christian or not, can be put in a common section.

Would you agree that my professor was incorrect in saying that no library has used the Dewey Decimal system in the past 100 years (he said this in late 1999)? Would you say that I am correct that, even today, public libraries tend to use the Dewey Decimal System, and academic libraries tend to use the Library of Congress System? Or am I wrong?

Plus keep in mind that this professor basically slandered an employee of the university that he worked for.

Also, this professor required us to buy a book that he wrote, it had to be a new copy, and we had to prove to him that we bought it new, but we literally never used the book for his class, not even once.

"I" didn't say anything about the reclassification of LGBTQ+ works; the author I quoted did. The racist and sexist classifications established in the Dewey Decimal System have been perpetuated by the continued use of those classifications without sufficient alteration, which no doubt some libraries still do. Recataloging a collection can be expensive.



The Library of Congress has certain advantages over the DDS, especially the fact that its base classifications are much more numerous and, consequently, more flexible and readily divided into subclasses that researchers find useful. The DDS is, by definition ("decimal") limited to ten base classes to then subdivide. So, for example, while the history of the Americas is the subject of two base classes in the LC system (E and F), in the DDS the history of the Americas is a subcategory of history and geography (900). While call numbers are always going to be a bit clunky, I and every scholar I've ever heard discuss this matter within earshot of me prefer the relative elegance of the LC system, even though most of us in school grew up using the DDS. For me, the LC system was like a breath of fresh air.



Nonetheless, your professor was wrong. The New York Public Library still uses the DDS, as do some colleges and universities. As I said, recataloging a collection can be expensive, and switching from DDS to LC would be a far more complicated job than just recataloging volumes that fall into several subcategories within the DDS.
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Old 11-15-2022, 08:36 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,235 posts, read 108,076,189 times
Reputation: 116201
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPC324 View Post
With the right changes, a bachelor's degree could probably be shortened to 3 years.

1. Colleges need to figure out what they're hoping students gain from the core classes. Is a full semester needed for the exposure, or could courses be done in half-semester units? Alternatively, could colleges instead emphasize elective courses that may actually interest the student, as long as they check boxes for certain skills or topics? Sure, there is some value in the exposure to other topics, but dedicating a whole semester to "The Caribbean Experience in Literature" didn't add a whole lot to my degree.
2. High schools need to Beef up their college preparation. Freshman-level math is usually required because the student wasn't prepared enough by high school or didn't know enough about taking advantage of predatory programs or exams. Ideally, I would like to see high schools move back toward educational tracks for senior year. Students should have the option to spend their senior years on a track for college prep, trade school prep, or some sort of life skills/work prep. Most states already have college prep courses or trade options, but formalizing them into a whole-year program would probably go a long way toward fixing the college problems in the US by taking away the stigma of not attending a four-year college.
That was probably an option for the required Freshman English/lit course. They're not going to throw that out or shorten it. It doesn't count as a Gen Ed. Once you've taken the required Frosh lit course, you don't ever have to take any literature courses again. Your Gen Ed req's are separate from that.
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Old 11-15-2022, 08:38 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,235 posts, read 108,076,189 times
Reputation: 116201
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post

Would you agree that my professor was incorrect in saying that no library has used the Dewey Decimal system in the past 100 years (he said this in late 1999)? Would you say that I am correct that, even today, public libraries tend to use the Dewey Decimal System, and academic libraries tend to use the Library of Congress System? Or am I wrong?
The academic libraries I know of, including UC Berkeley, still use the DDS.
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Old 11-15-2022, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Sunnybrook Farm
4,571 posts, read 2,710,885 times
Reputation: 13152
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
But the point that people often miss is that the system is not inherently racist or sexist. It was developed a long time ago, and our society back then was very different, and was more racist and sexist, and the system reflected society. Rather than dropping the whole system, perhaps some changes should be made to better reflect current society. You said, for example, that LGBTQ+ works have already been reclassified under sexual orientation. Perhaps the same can be done with other categories that you mention. Black history can be merged with American history. Women's work can be merged with jobs. All religious holidays, Christian or not, can be put in a common section.

Would you agree that my professor was incorrect in saying that no library has used the Dewey Decimal system in the past 100 years (he said this in late 1999)? Would you say that I am correct that, even today, public libraries tend to use the Dewey Decimal System, and academic libraries tend to use the Library of Congress System? Or am I wrong?

Plus keep in mind that this professor basically slandered an employee of the university that he worked for.

Also, this professor required us to buy a book that he wrote, it had to be a new copy, and we had to prove to him that we bought it new, but we literally never used the book for his class, not even once.
Well, the professor in question is invited to visit the Dallas Public Library either the main downtown location or any branch, a large public library with extensive collections, and observe the Dewey system in operation in 2022.
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Old 11-15-2022, 08:57 AM
 
1,276 posts, read 568,236 times
Reputation: 1196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
That was probably an option for the required Freshman English/lit course. They're not going to throw that out or shorten it. It doesn't count as a Gen Ed. Once you've taken the required Frosh lit course, you don't ever have to take any literature courses again. Your Gen Ed req's are separate from that.
Separate and above the standard composition and literature course. Hofstra had a "cross cultural" course requirement at the time I attended.

Sure, there's value in exploring many topics in college, but anything not major related could probably be condensed into an overview or used as elective credit instead.
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