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Too many people go to college. That's why costs are so high. If you can't do high school level math, you don't belong in any college.
The cost of college has always been high except for a short period after WWII through the 90s. Most people at the good colleges don't pay the sticker price.
An upper division undergrad course or a graduate level course with "algebra" in the title is probably something like linear algebra or abstract algebra. Not the algebra that is taught in high school.
I looked at the descriptions of come of those courses. Many are not that advanced at all.
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It depends on what the person ends up doing in their career. For example, I took several elective courses in statistical analysis that have helpful in my work as a management analyst, and later as a manager. I also took a couple of U.S. history classes, that I really enjoyed, and learned a lot from, but they have not helped me at all. I once took "Geography of South America"
when it was the only class that fit my schedule, and that one has been totally useless to me. What is the value of a "college education" if not to help one be successful in their career?
Too many people go to college. That's why costs are so high. If you can't do high school level math, you don't belong in any college.
The same is true of writing skills. If you can't put together a coherent sentence, let alone write at college level, you don't belong in college. And yet. a large percentage students admitted to college have abysmal writing skills, and that's been true for generations now. I noticed awhile ago, that some stage flagship schools require students who have been admitted to take a diagnostic test in writing, and make up any deficiency in their skill via a summer catch-up program.
That's one way to address the issue, but why aren't the schools doing a better job of teaching college-level writing? Why isn't the message reaching HS "English" teachers, not to mention gradeschool administrators, who should be hiring basic grammar teachers?
What would be an example of a class that teaches and tests against Algebra 101 or English Composition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLawyer2000
Colleges allow you to test into a class better suited for you. There's no need to retake it.
Goalposts sure are flying a lot. The point of this thread was why spend a year taking gen eds that are essentially a repeat of what was or should have been taught in high school. Then you asked the question of an example that tests against Algebra 101. I answered. Now you've got the goal posts flying around again.
The same is true of writing skills. If you can't put together a coherent sentence, let alone write at college level, you don't belong in college. And yet. a large percentage students admitted to college have abysmal writing skills, and that's been true for generations now. I noticed awhile ago, that some stage flagship schools require students who have been admitted to take a diagnostic test in writing, and make up any deficiency in their skill via a summer catch-up program.
That's one way to address the issue, but why aren't the schools doing a better job of teaching college-level writing? Why isn't the message reaching HS "English" teachers, not to mention gradeschool administrators, who should be hiring basic grammar teachers?
I'm right there with you. Why aren't schools doing a better job? I've argued before that they "everyone should go to college" mantra in the school systems means they have to water down the courses to get everyone through them. Hence the classic college prep curricula isn't anymore. Even AP has less impact as more and more colleges limit the AP credits they accept or require an alternate course if a student APs out of the standard one.
Are you all talking about required classes now or remediation classes that accrue no credits? It's hard to tell because two different types of classes are now being discussed.
A College Writing course does not "teach what should been learned in high school" but builds and expands on it. A remediation course does, however, bring the student (or that's the theory) to a level where s/he will be successful in the College Writing class.
Students won't be taught anything more than what they already learned in high school, and they won't be allowed to AP out of it regardless of AP score. .
We choose colleges which allowed credit for AP courses. It's an easy fact to find before applying to colleges.
My son aced his AP history courses. It would make no sense to have him waste time or money on a world history or US history of the 20th century survey course.
Be an educated consumer! A drop in applications will change the college's policy.
Are you all talking about required classes now or remediation classes that accrue no credits? It's hard to tell because two different types of classes are now being discussed.
A College Writing course does not "teach what should been learned in high school" but builds and expands on it. A remediation course does, however, bring the student (or that's the theory) to a level where s/he will be successful in the College Writing class.
The intent of the thread was the required gen eds. English 101, Math 101, a basic science, US History, World History. Things like that. Courses where the content is essentially a repeat of what was or should have been taught in high school. Perhaps they should go into more depth than they do, but was not my or my kids experience with the gen eds.
We shouldn't be talking about remedial courses (why would any college offer those is beyond me); or advanced courses, or curriculum specific courses. Those are a different conversation. But you know how CD is; conversations become kind of free floating as related topics pop in and out.
Goalposts sure are flying a lot. The point of this thread was why spend a year taking gen eds that are essentially a repeat of what was or should have been taught in high school. Then you asked the question of an example that tests against Algebra 101. I answered. Now you've got the goal posts flying around again.
Fair. You seem to keep ignoring the reality that not everyone graduates high school with the same level of education. What they should have been taught doesn't mean they have been taught that.
The initial post was about Gen Eds and dragging on finishing. You should be able to compete your Gen Eds, along with your other classes in the same 4 year period that it typically takes a student to demonstrate a college education. You could argue that Gen Eds don't contribute to the best use of time for those who already have studied those areas, but it's not dragging out anything.
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