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Old 11-28-2022, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
9,997 posts, read 7,106,401 times
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College isn't job training for the general economy. If you think about it, trying to force the square peg of the university system which was designed to train priests through the round hole of the economy is... well....silly.

One example - why is 4 years the standard? Presumably some jobs need more than 4 years training, some might only need 1 year if that.

I've never used my college degrees directly for any job. However, I can see from evidence of materials from before I got a degree that college did increase my skills and professionalism. There's value to it but I'm not convinced the standardizations we have are optimal.
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Old 11-28-2022, 12:06 PM
 
6,888 posts, read 6,953,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
All the college degree proves, in and of itself, is that he either had the money to pay for a degree or was willing to take on the debt. Why should that fact alone mean that his resume goes to the top of the stack?
A cynical theory that I've always had is that they may feel that those with student loan debt are more beholden to the job and have less power to walk away. Also, rightly or wrongly, they may feel that those who are willing to take on student loan debt are the type who buy more into the theory of deferred compensation or an investment in your future. They may think such employees are willing to work long hours for no immediate benefit, with some vague promises that it will pay off in the future. Also, rightly or wrongly, they may think that the type who take on student loan debt are the type who will blindly listen to authority figures and drink the kool aid, without regard as to whether or not it will actually benefit themselves long term.
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Old 11-28-2022, 12:08 PM
 
6,888 posts, read 6,953,083 times
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Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
Why require a 4 year college degree for a job that really doesn't need it?

-It demonstrates grit. The applicant had what it takes to overcome the obstacles and perhaps demonstrates cognitive ability.

-It's an easy and legal way to screen out minorities.
How does it screen out minorities? The college admissions process heavily favors minorities. You can maybe make an argument that it screens out poor people, who may be disproportionately likely to be minorities. But, in reality, it will disproportionately screen out poor white males (who can't afford college but don't qualify for affirmative action), and lower middle class people from high cost of living areas (who can't afford college but also don't qualify for need based financial aid).
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Old 11-28-2022, 12:11 PM
 
6,888 posts, read 6,953,083 times
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Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
Men have childcare responsibilities, too. More and more employers are offering paternity benefits for the birth or adoption of a child.

I don't really see licensure processes and requirements as being discriminatory towards women, in general. They are necessary requirements to ensure that professional standards are being met in a given field. Fast tracking licensure processes and watering down requirements in a given field could be pretty disastrous, if not downright dangerous, to the industry as a whole.

Obviously, if you are pregnant and have a 1 and 2 year old at home, it might be best to wait until the kids are a little older before you go for a license. But the same could be said for a man with small children at home.
Thank you! I am so tired of the constant male bashing on this forum.
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Old 11-28-2022, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Concord, CA
7,109 posts, read 9,148,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
30% of Americans have degrees. are you saying that most Americans don't have grit and cannot overcome obstacles and lack cognitive ability?
No, I'm not saying that.

I'm just telling you the excuses that companies use because they are too lazy to do the filtering themselves.
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Old 11-28-2022, 02:13 PM
 
9,952 posts, read 6,527,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
How does it screen out minorities? The college admissions process heavily favors minorities. You can maybe make an argument that it screens out poor people, who may be disproportionately likely to be minorities. But, in reality, it will disproportionately screen out poor white males (who can't afford college but don't qualify for affirmative action), and lower middle class people from high cost of living areas (who can't afford college but also don't qualify for need based financial aid).
The UC system doesn’t have affirmative action, yet only 20% of the 2022 class is white. University of Florida is also in a state that doesn’t allow AA but only about 50% of students are white and almost a supermajority are women. I don’t see any evidence that AA disproportionately screens out poor white males.
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Old 11-28-2022, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,894 posts, read 7,225,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
No, I'm not saying that.

I'm just telling you the excuses that companies use because they are too lazy to do the filtering themselves.
I wouldn't say it's laziness on the part of Corporate America. It's economics. But now the economics are saying they have to hire people and train them.

My favorite example is Enterprise Rent-A-Car, which requires a 4-year degree for kids to do paperwork and ask if you want any extra insurance (a.k.a. "fries with that"). Years ago, Enterprise must have realized that they could farm out selection and job training to the applicants/workers themselves. I wonder how many Enterprise workers are wondering what the 4 (or more) years of college work was for.

I was a bank teller at the age of 19 (college dropout). Opening CD's, IRA Accounts, and checking accounts is no less complicated than renting out a car. So why does one occupation require a 4-year degree and the other one doesn't?
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Old 11-28-2022, 02:20 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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We did this with the lowest level position that I manage. It was not meant to get more applicants,. in fact we did it prior to the current labor shortage. It was done to help make the workplace more inclusive, and allow people without degrees to get a foot in the door. As it turns out most applicants since have still had degrees. The biggest problem with it is that the next "step on the ladder" does require a degree, but we can often substitute experience, so if someone without the degree stays in that position a few years I might be able to promote them to the next step. After that, however, it's going to be a dead end unless they fond something else in the organization that doesn't require a degree (not likely).
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Old 11-28-2022, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,894 posts, read 7,225,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
The UC system doesn’t have affirmative action, yet only 20% of the 2022 class is white. University of Florida is also in a state that doesn’t allow AA but only about 50% of students are white and almost a supermajority are women. I don’t see any evidence that AA disproportionately screens out poor white males.
Most colleges today, i.e. 2-year County/Community/Junior and non-Land Grant 4-year state universities (formerly "Normal Schools"), operate almost on a "sign up" basis, rather than an application basis. Meaning anyone can enroll as long as you graduated high school.

Elite universities actively discriminate against whites and Asians, it's true, but the low-level colleges take almost anyone who signs up.
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Old 11-28-2022, 02:51 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,497 posts, read 57,246,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
We did this with the lowest level position that I manage. It was not meant to get more applicants,. in fact we did it prior to the current labor shortage. It was done to help make the workplace more inclusive, and allow people without degrees to get a foot in the door. ..
It's a good idea to hire a qualified applicant for an entry point into a company. Good employees are tough to find, degree or not.

My previous employer was very techy and degree focused (Stanford top 10% preferred), but I was hired at age 17, so didn't have a degree + I was caring for my parents then and for the next 30+ yrs, so a traditional degree route was a barrier to me, as it is to many. I was able to meet the requirements for several engineering, buyer, international business positions based on my experience and skill level and prior to getting my first degree. My benevolent employer reimbursed me 100% for my subsequent (5) degrees. ME, CE, Bus, Intl Bus, MBA. They were all completed while working FT. (usually nights, often while living internationally).

US Veterans Medical paid 100% for my sis (5 degrees, including Phd)

Many employers pay or reimburse for college, and you get relevant experience in the process. Even us private employers are willing to assist employees who show the desire and initiative.

https://www.estudentloan.com/blog/10...lp-pay-college
https://myscholly.com/50-companies-w...ment-programs/
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