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Old 11-30-2022, 01:00 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,664 posts, read 9,487,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
All the college degree proves, in and of itself, is that he either had the money to pay for a degree or was willing to take on the debt.
My degree was free via the GI bill. Plenty of people have scholarships. Not everyone needs money or a loan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
Why require a 4 year college degree for a job that really doesn't need it?
Because the people who apply for the position will almost always outweigh the number of vacancies available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
-It's an easy and legal way to screen out minorities.
Wrong. As a black man, my degree actually helps me compete on the same level as everyone else.

This isn't the 1950s, this is 2022, and there are countless ways to get a degree and countless schools to get it from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post

Any individual college class is not particularly valuable. But the cumulative experience of passing a lot of classes is. It shows the person can LEARN - they can take a large amount of information, process it, distill it, interpret it, prioritize it, and communicate it. High school doesn't really do that except maybe the best of them and honestly, it never did. Because again they are kids and always were.
I agree, I would also add that college shows that one can fulfill a commitment through adversity. It shows the employer that this person was able to stick to something for 4 or so years to accomplish a goal that only around 35% of Americans have achieved.

Last edited by Rocko20; 11-30-2022 at 01:16 AM..
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Old 11-30-2022, 07:53 AM
 
28,685 posts, read 18,820,138 times
Reputation: 30998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
I agree, I would also add that college shows that one can fulfill a commitment through adversity. It shows the employer that this person was able to stick to something for 4 or so years to accomplish a goal that only around 35% of Americans have achieved.
College is not "adversity," except to people who consider knowledge their adversary.
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Old 11-30-2022, 08:38 AM
 
7,371 posts, read 4,156,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
College is not "adversity," except to people who consider knowledge their adversary.

Adversity:

Learning to get out of bed and not miss classes (why I never had a morning class )

Learning to deal with authority - i.e. professors.

Learning how to manage time when your whole grade depend on one paper and a final exam.

Learning to negotiate with roommates.

Otherwise you're right!
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Old 11-30-2022, 09:11 AM
 
28,685 posts, read 18,820,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
Adversity:

Learning to get out of bed and not miss classes (why I never had a morning class )

Learning to deal with authority - i.e. professors.

Learning how to manage time when your whole grade depend on one paper and a final exam.

Learning to negotiate with roommates.

Otherwise you're right!
Well, I've lived my life around many combat veterans, and I've been in a jungle with communist guerillas pointing guns at me myself. I've also had a street mugger put a gun barrel to my side and pull the trigger (the cheap semi-auto jammed). That stuff is adversity.

And I've been in a job situation in which for two years my director really, really was out to get me. So much so that my immediate supervisor would say, "You didn't deserve that" and the director's eventual replacement said, "I read your last performance report. He didn't do you any favors." That's also adversity.

College? Nah. That was just learning to be an adult.
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Old 11-30-2022, 11:59 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
24,130 posts, read 32,518,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Most colleges today, i.e. 2-year County/Community/Junior and non-Land Grant 4-year state universities (formerly "Normal Schools"), operate almost on a "sign up" basis, rather than an application basis. Meaning anyone can enroll as long as you graduated high school.

Elite universities actively discriminate against whites and Asians, it's true, but the low-level colleges take almost anyone who signs up.
Two year public colleges or community colleges are open admission.

State Universities and colleges are not all "on a sign up basis" or what most people call "open admission". In fact, very few are.

"Normal Schools" were formed to train young women to become teachers. Some morphed into four year colleges and added liberal arts and science to the curriculum.

Is UNC Chapel Hill on a sign up basis? How about UC Berkley? Can anyone just get in because they live in California? Or my own Alma Mater, Stony Brook University (part of SUNY)

People can also be admitted to a college and university and never graduate. A 4 year degree from any regionally accredited, non-proprietary college or university takes effort, self-control, impulse control and an interest in knowledge. These are coveted attributes to employers.
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Old 11-30-2022, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,559 posts, read 2,222,437 times
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As has been stated, it depends on the job. I was hired by a defense plant as an energetic materials technician. My background is military with only a High School diploma. We had to identify the proper chemicals/raw materials and, using work instructions, mix and then process the explosive materials. It was an interesting job and I learned a lot about chemistry and laboratory procedures. And especially hazards and safety protocols.

I suppose that job could have been one that required at least some college, but it really required the worker to read and comprehend instructions (written and verbal), follow safety rules, and be to work on time.
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Old 11-30-2022, 02:31 PM
 
28,685 posts, read 18,820,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater View Post

I suppose that job could have been one that required at least some college, but it really required the worker to read and comprehend instructions (written and verbal), follow safety rules, and be to work on time.
The military did that for you.
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Old 11-30-2022, 03:50 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,754 posts, read 58,128,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The military did that for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Well, I've lived my life around many combat veterans, ... That stuff is adversity.

...
College? Nah. That was just learning to be an adult.
maybe?, but I don't think college 2022 is any longer about learning to be an adult

I went back to college post age 50 and it was very different (and that was many yrs ago)

I teach adults now, and some college age as well. Most students under age 26 are far from adulthood, and not knowingly aspiring to such.

Military can teach you a different method of becoming an adult. (Long before age 26)

Kids are very coddled by parents (and schools) these days. That is quite different than 40 yrs ago and very different from 60+ yrs ago.


I know no one currently in college who is "Pulling-up-their-bootstraps-to-gitter-done", I'm sure there are a few who are growing up. But largely from seeing their peers and saying.... OMG, How do they get by day-to-day? They know very little (common sense) and have experienced even less. It would be an interesting stat to determine how many current college students have had meaningful employment or responsibilities (career exploration / focused) prior to being a Jr in college.

Afraid it is very few.

As far as the 120 IQ +... 8-10% of population. Lets hope they are seeking success and contributing to society, as college grads or not. So many excellent job creators and business owners are far beyond wasting their time in college, and many don't bother. No crime in that, except they must embrace they cannot
drop-out' of their business / inventions and expect to become a wage slave for 'the-man' at the same pay as a college grad (who may know nothing). The brainiacs are willing to take that risk. (and many are 120+ IQ) I trust the top 10% IQ have enough sense to determine if college is appropriate for their aspirations and skillset.

Last edited by StealthRabbit; 11-30-2022 at 03:58 PM..
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Old 11-30-2022, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,664 posts, read 9,487,472 times
Reputation: 22999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
College is not "adversity," except to people who consider knowledge their adversary.
Tell that to those who dropped out.
Quote:
In four-year institutions, 56% of students tend to drop out after six years (What to Become, 2021).
https://research.com/universities-co...-dropout-rates

Many college students are also full time adults (non-traditional students).
Quote:
Today's college students are parents, caregivers, full-time employees, and retirees. In fact, estimates suggest that 40% of the current undergraduate population at American colleges and universities are non-traditional
https://www.naspa.org/images/uploads...NASPA_Memo.pdf

Definition of adversity
Quote:
a state or instance of serious or continued difficulty
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adversity

Perhaps you were drunk and partying during your college days but I was finishing my degree in the middle of a military enlistment. Now I’m a contractor. That college degree took me years to get and I fully understand why only around 30% of Americans bother to get one.

Last edited by Rocko20; 11-30-2022 at 05:11 PM..
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Old 11-30-2022, 06:21 PM
 
28,685 posts, read 18,820,138 times
Reputation: 30998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post

Perhaps you were drunk and partying during your college days but I was finishing my degree in the middle of a military enlistment. Now I’m a contractor. That college degree took me years to get and I fully understand why only around 30% of Americans bother to get one.
I did the same thing you did.

I mentioned earlier having once been held at gunpoint in the jungle by communist guerillas...I was taking a course at the time. I actually went from being held at gunpoint that morning to sitting in an economics course that same evening.

Nah, going to school during military enlistment... college was the easiest part of life. It wasn't adverse.

Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 11-30-2022 at 06:47 PM..
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