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Old 11-30-2022, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,065 posts, read 7,234,324 times
Reputation: 17146

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I was in the Army too. I can guarantee you, just because someone wore the uniform does not mean they have their s*** together. I knew more than a few soldiers that did well enough at following orders but when on their own or put into leadership, fell the heck apart.

To get through college does take some doing. I teach at a less selective college and I think my classes are notoriously easy. However, students do have to process 3 different information streams, one of which involves about 1000 pages of material in 12 weeks. If I were taking it, I could complete the whole class in 3-4 days, but I have a proven track record of training and experience thanks to my extensive education. I have plenty of experience processing large amounts of information.

I think you guys take for granted college level tasks are like muscles you work out. You take for granted the years you yourselves spent getting used to that kind of brain exercise. It's easy to you NOW but you're forgetting what it was like before you ever started.
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Old 11-30-2022, 07:26 PM
 
28,664 posts, read 18,775,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post

I think you guys take for granted college level tasks are like muscles you work out. You take for granted the years you yourselves spent getting used to that kind of brain exercise. It's easy to you NOW but you're forgetting what it was like before you ever started.
That's because high schools today are less robust, which I've spoken of earlier. So many of them have settled on offering only college prep curricula, but in order to maintain high graduation rates, they have to water down those curricula, as well as the overall pace and rigor of high school itself.
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Old 11-30-2022, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,609 posts, read 9,446,498 times
Reputation: 22949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Nah, going to school during military enlistment... college was the easiest part of life. It wasn't adverse.
Then you would've just went straight to college.

Again, the stats say otherwise:
Quote:
In four-year institutions, 56% of students tend to drop out after six years (What to Become, 2021).
https://research.com/universities-co...-dropout-rates

Military life isn't adverse. I got paid every 2 weeks regardless of how much work I did. Free healthcare, 30 days paid leave, free dental, free travel, free trade skill, government credit card, military discounts, free college, free certifications, PX, commissary, free gym, TSP, Space A travel, allowance for housing, 20 year pension, allowance for food, etc. it was easy. Deployment life too, easiest money I ever made all paid by taxpayers. Some folks call it modern welfare, and I can't disagree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
I was in the Army too. I can guarantee you, just because someone wore the uniform does not mean they have their s*** together.
The question is about the adversity of college and the 56% dropout rate indicates that as a clear "yes." Anyone with a pulse can join the military with a crappy ASVAB, GED, and become cannon fodder, not everyone can get a 4 year degree.

Last edited by Rocko20; 11-30-2022 at 11:46 PM..
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Old 12-01-2022, 03:36 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,767 posts, read 40,161,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
You sure anyone can be trained to do the job?
...and thus proving that not everyone should be going to college! Part of a good college experience is being "trained" to do learn how to complete assignments given out by their professors.

Quote:
The other thought is where does everyone get this idea the 23 year old in college has done nothing but sit in a classroom?
They seem to party a lot. And participate in BLM and other woke nonsense protests.

Quote:
The majority have been working to pay for school so when they graduate it's not the classic "4 years of work experience" vs "4 years of school" but vs a combination of work AND school.
If the majority of students were actually "working" to pay for their college degree, there wouldn't be such a student debt crisis in America right now. And this crisis also proves that the cost of a college degree isn't justified considering the resulting careers aren't paying enough to offset the loan repayments.

Anyway, after decades of seeing videos of college Spring Break activities, plus working with college graduates, I'm not impressed by anyone with a college degree, except a medical professional or engineer.
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Old 12-01-2022, 07:09 AM
 
28,664 posts, read 18,775,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Then you would've just went straight to college.

Again, the stats say otherwise:

https://research.com/universities-co...-dropout-rates

Military life isn't adverse. I got paid every 2 weeks regardless of how much work I did. Free healthcare, 30 days paid leave, free dental, free travel, free trade skill, government credit card, military discounts, free college, free certifications, PX, commissary, free gym, TSP, Space A travel, allowance for housing, 20 year pension, allowance for food, etc. it was easy. Deployment life too, easiest money I ever made all paid by taxpayers. Some folks call it modern welfare, and I can't disagree.

The question is about the adversity of college and the 56% dropout rate indicates that as a clear "yes." Anyone with a pulse can join the military with a crappy ASVAB, GED, and become cannon fodder, not everyone can get a 4 year degree.
Not everyone makes it through basic training and then first enlistment, either. I know a kid right now who has washed out of the Air Force, Army Reserves, and college.

If the military, even today, is "not adverse," then college, especially today, is certainly "not adverse."
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Old 12-01-2022, 09:23 AM
 
7,329 posts, read 4,124,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
"Normal Schools" were formed to train young women to become teachers. Some morphed into four year colleges and added liberal arts and science to the curriculum.
Many colleges had its roots in training Christian ministers as well as teachers. In its past, Harvard was nucleus of theological teaching in New England.

It's funny because I was listening to the Thomas Jefferson Hour on the radio yesterday while running errands. It discussed why college was so important in the colonies. In order to have a functioning democratic republic, the foundering father believed the US needed an educated population. Citizens needed to understand the roots of classical liberalism (from the Greeks) and knowledge of history.
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,065 posts, read 7,234,324 times
Reputation: 17146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Then you would've just went straight to college.

Again, the stats say otherwise:

https://research.com/universities-co...-dropout-rates

Military life isn't adverse. I got paid every 2 weeks regardless of how much work I did. Free healthcare, 30 days paid leave, free dental, free travel, free trade skill, government credit card, military discounts, free college, free certifications, PX, commissary, free gym, TSP, Space A travel, allowance for housing, 20 year pension, allowance for food, etc. it was easy. Deployment life too, easiest money I ever made all paid by taxpayers. Some folks call it modern welfare, and I can't disagree.

The question is about the adversity of college and the 56% dropout rate indicates that as a clear "yes." Anyone with a pulse can join the military with a crappy ASVAB, GED, and become cannon fodder, not everyone can get a 4 year degree.
You also have to be healthy and in fairly decent physical shape, and posess the discipline to follow orders without question. Yes they give you free stuff, but in return they demand you give up years of your life to accomplish missions of their choosing, some of which may be dangerous. I felt that deployments were easy too, but they also felt like prison. After a while I felt like I was serving a sentence.

It's a different set of skills. I found that people with an introspective and/or inquisitive nature didn't do very well. They could get their jobs done but seemed to hate it.

Last edited by redguard57; 12-01-2022 at 10:30 AM..
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Arizona
2,558 posts, read 2,217,430 times
Reputation: 3921
Speaking from the US Air Force point of view, I'd say that the great majority of folks who enlist go on to successfully complete Basic Training, Tech School, and at least one enlistment. I've known some youngsters who just weren't cut out for the military and they got discharged within their first year on the job. And some who were probably best suited for playing video games in their parents' basement.

I did 20 years and it was without a doubt the best time of my life.
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:51 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,701 posts, read 58,022,681 times
Reputation: 46172
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorktownGal View Post
Many colleges had its roots in training Christian ministers as well as teachers. In its past, Harvard was nucleus of theological teaching in New England.

It's funny because I was listening to the Thomas Jefferson Hour on the radio yesterday while running errands. It discussed why college was so important in the colonies. In order to have a functioning democratic republic, the foundering father believed the US needed an educated population. Citizens needed to understand the roots of classical liberalism (from the Greeks) and knowledge of history.
An educated electorate would be very helpful to USA government.
Political leaders who would learn, understand, and apply learnings from history would have alleviated many dangers for which we (USA) are at risk today.

Unfortunately, it is not happening, even though we educate(?) the masses.
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Old 12-01-2022, 01:37 PM
 
28,664 posts, read 18,775,862 times
Reputation: 30944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater View Post
Speaking from the US Air Force point of view, I'd say that the great majority of folks who enlist go on to successfully complete Basic Training, Tech School, and at least one enlistment. I've known some youngsters who just weren't cut out for the military and they got discharged within their first year on the job. And some who were probably best suited for playing video games in their parents' basement.
But how many chose to go to college instead, seeing the Air Force as too adverse even to consider...and then failed to finish college, too?
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